RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalpedā¦
Posts: 973
|
Post by RyanAK on May 30, 2022 18:16:30 GMT -7
Are there accounts of buckle shoes being cut back to take a lace? Sounds plausible as a make-do on the frontier or for the truly poor. Or the gambler that bet and lost his buckles. š HC or reenactorism? Anyone done it? Any quotes? Any photos? āWhy?ā you ask? Iām rehabilitating a pair of ACW straight-last brogans that with about 15 seconds worth of utility knife work would make passible buckle-less colonial shoes. Now I managed to score a pair of brand new Fugawee half boots in my exact size for $50ā¦ and Iām onto my second pair of moccasins in split elkā¦ and I have wool booties cut out for shoe packsā¦ butā¦ Can ye ever NOT have low, straight-last shoes?!
|
|
|
Post by spence on May 30, 2022 19:00:10 GMT -7
Are there accounts of buckle shoes being cut back to take a lace? Sounds plausible as a make-do on the frontier or for the truly poor. Or the gambler that bet and lost his buckles. š HC or reenactorism? Anyone done it? Any quotes? Any photos? The Pennsylvania Gazette September 28, 1758 RUN away from the Subscriber, living in Kennet Township, Chester County, on the 20th Inst. An Irish Servant Man, named Isaac Young, about 25 Years of Age, a well set Fellow, about 5 Feet 6 Inches high, very remarkable for stooping forward, has short light coloured Hair, inclining to red, of a sandy Complexion: Had on when he went away, A dark coloured old Coat, without Lining, no Jacket, two Check Shirts, a Pair of old Breeches, made of sail cloth, ragged and torn, the Coat and Breeches much tarred, light grey Yarn Stockings, good Shoes, tied with Strings, though made for Buckles, and a half worn Felt Hat. Spence
|
|
RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalpedā¦
Posts: 973
|
Post by RyanAK on May 30, 2022 20:29:26 GMT -7
Ho! Interesting! āā¦though made for Buckles.ā Thatās an affirmative confirmation of my PC questionā¦ and evidence of shoes made for laces?
|
|
|
Post by spence on May 30, 2022 21:06:32 GMT -7
They did make shoes intended to be tied, not buckled. Items describing shoes tied are fairly common, to me it seems reasonable to assume those were made to be tied.
The Pennsylvania Gazette September 28, 1774 THREE POUNDS Reward. RUN away from the subscriber... Had on, and took with him...coarse shoes, tied...
The Pennsylvania Gazette November 15, 1775 FORTY SHILLINGS REWARD. RUN away...blue stockings, good shoes tied with straps,
The Pennsylvania GazetteāØ January 16, 1772āØ RUN awayā¦.old brogues, tied with strings,
The Pennsylvania Gazette May 14, 1741 RUN away ...two pair of round toe'd shoes, tied with strings,
The Pennsylvania Gazette February 5, 1794 One Hundred & Thirty Dollars Reward. RAN away,... his shoes tied with ribbon.
The Pennsylvania Gazette December 12, 1771 SIXTEEN DOLLARS Reward. RUN away, ...old shoes, tied with strings;
Spence
|
|
|
Post by artificer on May 31, 2022 5:47:22 GMT -7
I picked up the following pamphlet/book "The Leatherworker in Eighteenth-Century Williamsburg" at Colonial Williamsburg only a couple years after it was first printed. It is just chock full of period documentation, though by bits and pieces throughout. www.gutenberg.org/files/58293/58293-h/58293-h.htmThe Cordwainer (Shoe Designer/Maker) at CW with whom I spent hours "mining" information, suggested it as a start to learn more about period footwear. A few years later, I spent some hours in the Cobbler's (Shoe Repairer and sometimes maker of less sophisticated shoes) Shop at Old Salem in Winston/Salem, NC for the different perspective from that trade. From these and other period sources, here is some information you might enjoy. Generally speaking, only the wealthy could afford to have a pair of custom made Cordwainer's shoes or boots. This because the Cordwainer took various measurements of a customer's foot, made or modified a shoe last JUST to fit him (or her) and crafted the footwear to fit that person elegantly and stored that last for future orders from that customer. IOW, it was a truly custom-made pair of shoes or boots. The Cordwainer at CW informed me his shop made all footwear for all paid personnel and volunteers to that standard, though they made the outside of the shoe to look like common to high end shoes, to match the persona of each person. One of the volunteer's normally had to have expensive orthopedic shoes for her feet, but was delighted to find the Cordwainer made period shoes actually were more comfortable and she was able to walk better and be on her feet for hours with them, unlike even the most expensive orthopedic shoes she normally wore. Generally speaking, these shoes were usually made for buckles, though there were some kinds of high end shoes made to tie with fancy ribbons, but those were never worn by any but the rich. Next down were shoes made to pattern sizes, but in more expensive leathers or cloth uppers. I've never studied them much, as those shoes were above the economic station of any persona I ever did. The next shoes down in expense were known as "Plain" shoes. Though still well made, they were made to pattern sizes and not an individual customer's foot, very similar to how we buy modern shoes. These were imported from England, made in the few shoe factories in the colonies such as at Norfolk, VA and also in a Cordwainer's shop by his journeymen and apprentices as a less expensive shoe than a custom made one. These came much like our modern period repro shoes with flaps ready to be cut for buckles. These were normally plain black. The way a prosperous man/woman tradesman or mature farmer/his wife might show off a bit was to buy fancier buckles with these. The next shoes down in expense gets a bit confusing and what they were called depends to some degree to whom they were advertised to be sold. If advertised for lower economic station white people, they were often called "country shoes." If advertised for slaves, they were often called "Negro" or sometimes "Slave shoes." These were still made to pattern sizes and hand sewn, but the leather for the uppers were not first quality in that the thickness was not uniform and perhaps with what we moderns call "range scars." Those sold to whites were normally blackened, but those sold for slaves might have been natural/undyed "russet" or blackened, depending on the Master's preference. Apprentices and Tradesmen here could/did make them, but these were also made fast and perhaps a bit sloppy. If itinerant Cobblers made shoes, this was often what they made for poorer farmers and laborers. Normally these were only made to be tied and though there might be as many as a single hole or four holes for the ties, two or three holes on each side of the upper seems to have been the most common. Gus
|
|
RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalpedā¦
Posts: 973
|
Post by RyanAK on May 31, 2022 9:13:19 GMT -7
Wow! Fantastic stuff. So Iāll make these into a pair of ācountry shoesāā¦ āold brogues, tied with stringsā. Cut down to a two-holer and laced with tarred hemp marline. Soles are actually peggedā¦ and I think thatās a 19th century construction method. But these will make an interesting option that I donāt recall seeing at colonial events.
|
|
RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalpedā¦
Posts: 973
|
Post by RyanAK on May 31, 2022 13:37:32 GMT -7
This is what I started with. I really cannot remember what brand these are, but the 21 year old version of meself was shocked at the price. At the time they were by far the most expensive shoes Iāve ever bought. A lot of beer was drank by someone else because I bought these. I think Jarnigan or Missouri Boot. They sat for the past couple decades in my parentās basement. Gus, I can appreciate what a custom shoe can do. I invested in myself because of my work and my lifestyle with two pairs of custom boots built for my foot. My overall comfort and health increased dramatically. I dearly love them and I canāt see them ever needing anything other than soles every 5 years or so. If anyone ever wants to treat themselves to ālife bootsā, you can do no finer than Nicks in Spokane. Spokane is sort of a Mecca for custom bootsā¦ I think there are 5 or 6 independent shops building high-end boots.
|
|
RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalpedā¦
Posts: 973
|
Post by RyanAK on May 31, 2022 13:41:09 GMT -7
|
|
|
Post by paranger on May 31, 2022 13:57:46 GMT -7
I think you've got something quite seviceable there!
|
|
RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalpedā¦
Posts: 973
|
Post by RyanAK on May 31, 2022 14:11:21 GMT -7
Yeah? I go back and forth. Add a piece of twine and some ratty stockings (or no stockings) with a wagoner frock and yāa got a laborer class impression started.
|
|
RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalpedā¦
Posts: 973
|
Post by RyanAK on May 31, 2022 17:03:09 GMT -7
Yeah. These will work.
|
|
|
Post by artificer on May 31, 2022 17:15:43 GMT -7
Wow! Fantastic stuff. So Iāll make these into a pair of ācountry shoesāā¦ āold brogues, tied with stringsā. Cut down to a two-holer and laced with tarred hemp marline. Soles are actually peggedā¦ and I think thatās a 19th century construction method. But these will make an interesting option that I donāt recall seeing at colonial events. Ryan, You are correct that pegged soles was a 19th century construction method, but who cares? Some folks here may know otherwise, but I've never heard of even a juried event where they inspected the sole attachment on shoes for proper period construction, as long as the soles and heels were leather. From my earlier link, " A good shoemaker could average two pairs of shoes, welted, turned, or stitched in a twelve-hour working day." Frankly, though my intention in studying the early shoes was to eventually make some, I quickly learned it would take more study and at least an excellent mentor or apprenticeship for me to learn how to do it. Thus, I was never able to follow up on it. So, I'm not the one to explain even what the quoted sentence means. You know, I was going to discuss different ways 18th century soles were sewn on, but then I realized it is a moot point. We are pretty much forced to use repro shoes with whatever the makers give us. Gus
|
|
|
Post by artificer on May 31, 2022 17:17:38 GMT -7
Yeah. These will work. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> I agree. Gus
|
|
coot
City-dweller
Posts: 152
|
Post by coot on May 31, 2022 19:00:04 GMT -7
It is not necessary to cut back the latches or to punch holes in them to "convert" buckle shoes to tied shoes. Simply fold the latches over & tuck the ends under & then into the shoes. Then a string, ribbon or whatever can be run thru the folds & tied off. Flying Canoe used to sell their buckle shoes tied this way with customers told to walk around for a few hours to ensure the fit before holes were punched for the buckles. This method allows for reattaching buckles when available & no reason that shoes could be worn tied this way for many days.
|
|
|
Post by brokennock on May 31, 2022 19:02:49 GMT -7
I picked up the following pamphlet/book "The LeatherworkerĀ in Eighteenth-Century Williamsburg" at Colonial Williamsburg only a couple years after it was first printed.Ā It is just chock full of period documentation, though by bits and pieces throughout. www.gutenberg.org/files/58293/58293-h/58293-h.htmThe Cordwainer (Shoe Designer/Maker) at CW with whom I spent hours "mining" information, suggested it as a start to learn more about period footwear.Ā A few years later, I spent some hours in the Cobbler's (Shoe Repairer and sometimes maker of less sophisticated shoes) Shop at Old Salem in Winston/Salem, NC for the different perspective from that trade.Ā From these and other period sources, here is some information you might enjoy. Generally speaking, only the wealthy could afford to have a pair of custom made Cordwainer's shoes or boots.Ā This because the Cordwainer took various measurements of a customer's foot, made or modified a shoe last JUST to fit him (or her) and crafted the footwear to fit that person elegantly and stored that last for future orders from that customer.Ā IOW, it was a truly custom-made pair of shoes or boots.Ā Ā The Cordwainer at CW informed me his shop made all footwear for all paid personnel and volunteers to that standard, though they made the outside of the shoe to look like common to high end shoes, to match the persona of each person.Ā One of the volunteer's normally had to have expensive orthopedic shoes for her feet, but was delighted to find the Cordwainer made period shoes actually were more comfortable and she was able to walk better and be on her feet for hours with them, unlike even the most expensive orthopedic shoes she normally wore.Ā Generally speaking, these shoes were usually made for buckles, though there were some kinds of high end shoes made to tie with fancy ribbons, but those were never worn by any but the rich. Next down were shoes made to pattern sizes, but in more expensive leathers or cloth uppers.Ā I've never studied them much, as those shoes were above the economic station of any persona I ever did.Ā Ā The next shoes down in expense were known as "Plain" shoes.Ā Though still well made, they were made to pattern sizes and not an individual customer's foot, very similar to how we buy modern shoes.Ā These were imported from England, made in the few shoe factories in the colonies such as at Norfolk, VA and also in a Cordwainer's shop by his journeymen and apprentices as a less expensive shoe than a custom made one.Ā These came much like our modern period repro shoes with flaps ready to be cut for buckles.Ā These were normally plain black.Ā The way a prosperous man/woman tradesman or mature farmer/his wife might show off a bit was to buy fancier buckles with these.Ā Ā The next shoes down in expense gets a bit confusing and what they were called depends to some degree to whom they were advertised to be sold.Ā If advertised for lower economic station white people, they were often called "country shoes."Ā If advertised for slaves, they were often called "Negro" or sometimes "Slave shoes."Ā These were still made to pattern sizes and hand sewn, but the leather for the uppers were not first quality in that the thickness was not uniform and perhaps with what we moderns call "range scars."Ā Those sold to whites were normally blackened, but those sold for slaves might have been natural/undyed "russet" or blackened, depending on the Master's preference.Ā Apprentices and Tradesmen here could/did make them, but these were also made fast and perhaps a bit sloppy.Ā If itinerant Cobblers made shoes, this was often what they made for poorer farmers and laborers.Ā Normally these were only made to be tied and though there might be as many as a single hole or four holes for the ties, two or three holes on each side of the upper seems to have been the most common. Gus Great info Gus. Thank you. Was anything brought up in your conversations at CW or Old Salem about how to lace one's shoes or boots? There was recently a little discussion elsewhere that seems to show that straight lacing, as opposed to closing the laces, would be more p.c. It was also reported that this increases comfort for folks with high arches and/or wider than average feet.
|
|