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Post by paranger on May 13, 2023 13:47:43 GMT -7
Last weekend I had the great pleasure of spending two full days upping my bladesmithing game under the expert tutelage of CLA's Joe Seabolt in Goshen, OH. Joe is an excellent bladesmith and teacher and all-around good guy. One of the most exciting new skills I learned was low heat forge welding: I am talking ORANGE heat here, as in 1700-1800F! If you ask most modern ABS smiths, they will tell you it isn't possible. I learned that not only is it possible, but I DID it! Why, you may ask? First, a little historical perspective: High carbon steel was a precious resource in the 18th c., and it was typically used only where a cutting edge was needed. A great example of this with which most of us are familiar is the traditional wrought iron axe with steel wedge bit. Likewise, in the cutlery industry, steel was not wasted on knife tangs - particularly in low to middle grade cutlery. One approach to this was the pinned partial tang, as seen in English and French trade knives. Another was forge welding a wrought iron tang to a steel blade. A 1767 German treatise on blade manufacturing records this approach, as practiced by the famous bladesmiths of Solingen: "Every blade gets an iron tang, and a piece of the blade, itself, near the tang is also made of iron. The worse the blade is, the longer is the iron part, so that it can be two or three inches long on very inferior blades; however on refined [blades] it is only a half inch [long]." Below is a Dutch style trade knife I made using this technique: a mild steel tang welded to a hand forged 1084 steel blade.    In the first picture, you can clearly see the edges of the forge weld. |
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on May 13, 2023 14:31:02 GMT -7
This… this is what makes learning skills and crafting 18th Century objects so fascinating. Well done, friend.
Is the weld done before shaping, or are the blade and tang forge shaped before welding together?
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Post by paranger on May 13, 2023 14:59:09 GMT -7
This… this is what makes learning skills and crafting 18th Century objects so fascinating. Well done, friend. Is the weld done before shaping, or are the blade and tang forge shaped before welding together? Thanks, Ryan. I forged out the blade to shape first (with a stub of a tang) and then cut a piece of bar stock for the tang (which I suspect mirrors the historical practice). Then forge weld, grind, file, and heat treat. |
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Post by brokennock on May 13, 2023 16:17:00 GMT -7
That came out great. I've heard of this being done and it is nice to see a good example of it. The welded area, as well as the blade, cleaned up really nicely.
I wonder if there is an added advantage in durability in that the mild steel (or iron at the time) isn't hardened like the blade. Maybe the tang, at the juncture of blade, tang/handle, would maybe be more likely to bend than break?
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Post by paranger on May 13, 2023 16:23:38 GMT -7
That came out great. I've heard of this being done and it is nice to see a good example of it. The welded area, as well as the blade, cleaned up really nicely. I wonder if there is an added advantage in durability in that the mild steel (or iron at the time) isn't hardened like the blade. Maybe the tang, at the juncture of blade, tang/handle, would maybe be more likely to bend than break? I have had that same thought, Nock. Quite possibly there is an advantage in toughness to be had much like a differential heat treatment. |
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Post by brokennock on May 13, 2023 16:28:49 GMT -7
That came out great. I've heard of this being done and it is nice to see a good example of it. The welded area, as well as the blade, cleaned up really nicely. I wonder if there is an added advantage in durability in that the mild steel (or iron at the time) isn't hardened like the blade. Maybe the tang, at the juncture of blade, tang/handle, would maybe be more likely to bend than break? I have had that same thought, Nock. Quite possibly there is an advantage in toughness to be had much like a differential heat treatment. Well, get out there and put it to work then let us know. 😁 |
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Post by brokennock on May 13, 2023 16:29:25 GMT -7
How did you make the ferrul?
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Post by paranger on May 13, 2023 16:36:41 GMT -7
How did you make the ferrul? I just cut a section of 5/8" brass tubing and fitted it to the walnut handle. Secured with cutler's cement. |
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Post by spence on May 13, 2023 17:24:16 GMT -7
Excuse my ignorance, but I don't understand the relevance of low-temperature welding in this particular application. Why not just use the usual white-hot welding technique?
Spence
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Post by paranger on May 13, 2023 17:33:46 GMT -7
Excuse my ignorance, but I don't understand the relevance of low-temperature welding in this particular application. Why not just use the usual white-hot welding technique? Spence Well, for one thing, from a practical standpoint, my forge won't get that hot. More generally speaking (and historically relevant), there is a constant risk of "burning" the metal at those higher temps, increasing grain size and inducing stress and brittleness prior to quenching (which is when bad things are most likely to happen in the forging process). It's one thing for a blacksmith to weld something low carbon that will never need to be hardened. Knives are a whole different animal. |
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Post by spence on May 13, 2023 18:17:53 GMT -7
Thanks, I'm a little smarter.  Am I correct that when forge welding the two pieces actually blend/merge a little in the areas of contact, and it's not that the two surfaces are just stuck together? Spence |
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Post by paranger on May 14, 2023 4:28:41 GMT -7
Thanks, I'm a little smarter. Am I correct that when forge welding the two pieces actually blend/merge a little in the areas of contact, and it's not that the two surfaces are just stuck together? Spence Correct, yes: a true weld means heat and pressure have homogenized the steel at the molecular level. In this case, because they are 2 different alloys, you can still see a visible difference when welded (which is the principle behind doing damascus steel for aesthetic reasons) |
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Post by brokennock on May 14, 2023 4:37:17 GMT -7
The more I look at this knife the more I like it. I'm not on the sheepsfoot bandwagon with many of you, but this came out really, really nice. Very clean.
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Post by paranger on May 14, 2023 4:58:41 GMT -7
The more I look at this knife the more I like it. I'm not on the sheepsfoot bandwagon with many of you, but this came out really, really nice. Very clean. Many thanks, Nock! |
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on May 14, 2023 5:21:15 GMT -7
There’s a sheepsfoot bandwagon?
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