|
|
Post by Black Hand on May 8, 2019 5:04:52 GMT -7
The following are things I use/do when on a Scout. They have come about over years of being in the woods - they work for me, but are not the only way to do things. Water: I WILL NOT drink wild water under any circumstance - As such, all water is boiled or filtered. In the past, I have been called a hypocrite because I carry a filter while being a vocal supporter of HC/PC. This is a situation where I feel it justified to relax my personal views. I carry a Katadyn/Pur Hiker filter that has a cork attached to the output spout which will fit the mouth of my jackware canteen (done on purpose). These filters are made to remove many/most/all filterable pathogens with the ceramic filter, kill viruses (which are not filterable) with the iodine stage and adsorb chemicals (including the iodine, pesticides, etc) with the activated charcoal stage. The filter is carried in a cloth sack and is in my bedroll in the winter to keep it from freezing. While boiling water kills pathogens, it does nothing for chemicals in the water. That said, I am slightly less concerned about these and will use boiled water for coffee, tea, chocolate or stew. Boiling water for drinking is time-consuming and a filter just does a better job, especially when I have a free-flowing mountain stream not but a few paces from camp. Ice-cold and delicious... While in the field, at least 2 of us have a working filter. I avoid the well-pump handle type filters, as these handles seem to be a point of failure (or, at least, were a point of failure in the past). Replacement filter cartridges are relatively inexpensive and will filter hundreds of gallons. Foods: I carry a variety - there is no need to go hungry or eat poorly in the woods. Dried Hominy (comes in a large can at the store - dried in the oven) Barley Wild rice Dried vegetable mix (Onion, Green onion, Carrots and Tomato paste) Coarse cornmeal Portable soup (i.e. Knorr soup cubes) Meat - Venison, Elk or slow Elk (Beef) Bacon Jerky Parched corn Dried apples Dried Plums Dried Blueberries Maple sugar Coffee/Tea Red pepper flake Ground Black pepper I have carried fresh meat and bacon for up to 3 days in hot conditions with no effect - in my pack or hanging in the shade, the meat stayed relatively cool. At no time did it smell as if it had "gone off" (my nose is especially sensitive and I would have picked up the slightest hint). A standard meal in the evening is stew containing meat (2-3 squirrels at times), barley, dried vegetables, portable soup and wild rice/hominy/parched corn (optional). Cooked in a small brass kettle, this pot will feed 3-4 when supplemented with roasted meat. Breakfast is usually bacon and savory cornmeal, while lunch is usually jerky & parched corn. Any meal might be supplemented with fresh fish or any other delicacy that might be along (we had bear-paws roasted in mud one time - see 2nd image below, smoked moose or pork, sausages, bear, roasted bison femurs for marrow, a delightful & delicious fruitcake, wild turkey, swan, etc...). I once made grilled cheese sandwiches - long day walking and we had a collection of stuff including bread, cheese and butter. This was a delicious pick-me-up, NOT PC/HC by any means, but I had NO complaints and they disappeared faster than I could make them.   Rum is a staple for me - I will carry an entire 750ml bottle. We've also had whiskey, honey whiskey, shrub and Limoncello (to name a few). The alcohol is whatever happens to be in the pack and is shared until gone, sometimes all too quickly. |
|
Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990 
|
Post by Keith on May 8, 2019 14:02:48 GMT -7
The following are things I use/do when on a Scout. They have come about over years of being in the woods - they work for me, but are not the only way to do things. Water: I WILL NOT drink wild water under any circumstance - As such, all water is boiled or filtered. In the past, I have been called a hypocrite because I carry a filter while being a vocal supporter of HC/PC. This is a situation where I feel it justified to relax my personal views. I carry a Katadyn/Pur Hiker filter that has a cork attached to the output spout which will fit the mouth of my jackware canteen (done on purpose). These filters are made to remove many/most/all filterable pathogens with the ceramic filter, kill viruses (which are not filterable) with the iodine stage and adsorb chemicals (including the iodine, pesticides, etc) with the activated charcoal stage. The filter is carried in a cloth sack and is in my bedroll in the winter to keep it from freezing. While boiling water kills pathogens, it does nothing for chemicals in the water. That said, I am slightly less concerned about these and will use boiled water for coffee, tea, chocolate or stew. Boiling water for drinking is time-consuming and a filter just does a better job. While in the field, at least 2 of us have a working filter. I avoid the well-pump handle type filters, as these handles seem to be a point of failure (or, at least, were a point of failure in the past). Replacement filter cartridges are relatively inexpensive and will filter hundreds of gallons. Foods: To be continued...stay tuned. I have the same attitude when it comes to medical supplies, I very much doubt that any woodsrunner ever carried a medical kit, but then again, many of them did not survive long enough to be remembered in the history books! On local journeys into the forest I carry a small medical kit, but for longer journeys & have a larger kit. The glass bottle in the middle of this image is what I use as an eye wash glass. Getting something in the eye is very debilitating, yet many people fail to carry anything for this problem. Having experienced this many times I searched for a period alternative. This bottle serves the purpose very well.  I totally agree Black Hand, all water should be boiled. Somewhere along that water course you can bet there is a dead animal either in the water or close to it! I carry water filter bags & boil the water for topping up my water bottle.   Keith. |
|
|
|
Post by Sicilianhunter on May 9, 2019 6:04:21 GMT -7
Hand,
I am in total agreement in regards to drinking water afield, especially here in the southwest.
I have an MSR filter that may be the type you mentioned failing. Honestly, I got it for a song and haven't used it much but what I don't like is that the filter is the main body and not cheap to replace.
I also have a life straw but that is more for drinking directly and not about filling canteens.
What model of Katadyn do you have?
I was unaware of the multiple stages of purification.
I've also heard of folks using (and swearing by) Ionized oxygen tablets but I have my doubts about just using tablets.
|
|
|
|
Post by Black Hand on May 9, 2019 6:10:47 GMT -7
I have the Hiker model. Replacement filters are ~$50, or were when I last replaced a filter about 10 years ago.
One needs to evaluate the size of the pores in the filter to see what it will remove. Some filters I have used in the lab are 0.22um and considered "sterilizing" filters - i.e. stuff coming out is for all intents & purposes sterile (bacteria are removed). Viruses are tricky buggers as they really aren't filterable due to their size with common methods. In this case, chemicals such as iodine, chlorine compounds, ozone or boiling are used to disrupt/damage/destroy the nucleic acid and "kill" the virus (viruses aren't really considered to be alive in the general biological sense).
|
|
|
|
Post by Sicilianhunter on May 9, 2019 6:30:16 GMT -7
The following are things I use/do when on a Scout. They have come about over years of being in the woods - they work for me, but are not the only way to do things. Water: I WILL NOT drink wild water under any circumstance - As such, all water is boiled or filtered. In the past, I have been called a hypocrite because I carry a filter while being a vocal supporter of HC/PC. This is a situation where I feel it justified to relax my personal views. I carry a Katadyn/Pur Hiker filter that has a cork attached to the output spout which will fit the mouth of my jackware canteen (done on purpose). These filters are made to remove many/most/all filterable pathogens with the ceramic filter, kill viruses (which are not filterable) with the iodine stage and adsorb chemicals (including the iodine, pesticides, etc) with the activated charcoal stage. The filter is carried in a cloth sack and is in my bedroll in the winter to keep it from freezing. While boiling water kills pathogens, it does nothing for chemicals in the water. That said, I am slightly less concerned about these and will use boiled water for coffee, tea, chocolate or stew. Boiling water for drinking is time-consuming and a filter just does a better job, especially when I have a free-flowing mountain stream not but a few paces from camp. Ice-cold and delicious... While in the field, at least 2 of us have a working filter. I avoid the well-pump handle type filters, as these handles seem to be a point of failure (or, at least, were a point of failure in the past). Replacement filter cartridges are relatively inexpensive and will filter hundreds of gallons. Foods: I carry a variety - there is no need to go hungry or eat poorly in the woods. Dried Hominy (comes in a large can at the store - dried in the oven) Barley Wild rice Dried vegetable mix (Onion, Green onion, Carrots and Tomato paste) Coarse cornmeal Portable soup (i.e. Knorr soup cubes) Meat - Venison, Elk or slow Elk (Beef) Bacon Jerky Parched corn Dried apples Dried Plums Dried Blueberries Maple sugar Coffee/Tea Red pepper flake Ground Black pepper I have carried fresh meat and bacon for up to 3 days in hot conditions with no effect - in my pack or hanging in the shade, the meat stayed relatively cool. At no time did it smell as if it had "gone off" (my nose is especially sensitive and I would have picked up the slightest hint). A standard meal in the evening is stew containing meat (2-3 squirrels at times), barley, dried vegetables, portable soup and wild rice/hominy/parched corn (optional). Cooked in a small brass kettle, this pot will feed 3-4 when supplemented with roasted meat. Breakfast is usually bacon and savory cornmeal, while lunch is usually jerky & parched corn. Any meal might be supplemented with fresh fish or any other delicacy that might be along (we had bear-paws roasted in mud one time - see 2nd image below, smoked moose or pork, sausages, bear, roasted bison femurs for marrow, a delightful & delicious fruitcake, wild turkey, swan, etc...). I once made grilled cheese sandwiches - long day walking and we had a collection of stuff including bread, cheese and butter. This was a delicious pick-me-up, NOT PC/HC by any means, but I had NO complaints and they disappeared faster than I could make them. Rum is a staple for me - I will carry an entire 750ml bottle. We've also had whiskey, honey whiskey, shrub and Limoncello (to name a few). The alcohol is whatever happens to be in the pack and is shared until gone, sometimes all too quickly. Hand, Thanks for the list! I did learn one thing about dried supplies, pinto beans take FOREVER to cook. I tried the short boil method to failure at the last event I attended. They tasted good but never got soft in the 2 days I cooked them! I've heard that a sheep herder's trick is to cook them using the soak method about halfway, spread them out to dry and cook them the rest of the way afield. I've been told to abandon them for Navy beans which are easier to cook. Have you ever made the original recipe Portable soup? I'm tempted but it sounds like a long road to something not so great.. |
|
|
|
Post by Sicilianhunter on May 9, 2019 6:36:44 GMT -7
I have the Hiker model. Replacement filters are ~$50, or were when I last replaced a filter about 10 years ago. One needs to evaluate the size of the pores in the filter to see what it will remove. Some filters I have used in the lab are 0.22um and considered "sterilizing" filters - i.e. stuff coming out is for all intents & purposes sterile (bacteria are removed). Viruses are trick buggers as they really aren't filterable due to their size with common methods. In this case, chemicals such as iodine, chlorine compounds, ozone or boiling are used to disrupt/damage/destroy the nucleic acid and "kill" the virus (viruses aren't really considered to be alive in the general biological sense). You know, I lied...as Sicilians do, I was given a Sawyer filter that has a unique system where you squeeze a bag of unfiltered water through the filter into a clean bag but I haven't tried it yet. Is this yours?: www.amazon.com/Katadyn-Transparent-Lightweight-Backpacking-Preparedness/dp/B075TTTX2R/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?keywords=katydyn+pur+filter&qid=1557408799&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmr0 |
|
|
|
Post by Sicilianhunter on May 9, 2019 6:37:55 GMT -7
The following are things I use/do when on a Scout. They have come about over years of being in the woods - they work for me, but are not the only way to do things. Water: I WILL NOT drink wild water under any circumstance - As such, all water is boiled or filtered. In the past, I have been called a hypocrite because I carry a filter while being a vocal supporter of HC/PC. This is a situation where I feel it justified to relax my personal views. I carry a Katadyn/Pur Hiker filter that has a cork attached to the output spout which will fit the mouth of my jackware canteen (done on purpose). These filters are made to remove many/most/all filterable pathogens with the ceramic filter, kill viruses (which are not filterable) with the iodine stage and adsorb chemicals (including the iodine, pesticides, etc) with the activated charcoal stage. The filter is carried in a cloth sack and is in my bedroll in the winter to keep it from freezing. While boiling water kills pathogens, it does nothing for chemicals in the water. That said, I am slightly less concerned about these and will use boiled water for coffee, tea, chocolate or stew. Boiling water for drinking is time-consuming and a filter just does a better job. While in the field, at least 2 of us have a working filter. I avoid the well-pump handle type filters, as these handles seem to be a point of failure (or, at least, were a point of failure in the past). Replacement filter cartridges are relatively inexpensive and will filter hundreds of gallons. Foods: To be continued...stay tuned. I have the same attitude when it comes to medical supplies, I very much doubt that any woodsrunner ever carried a medical kit, but then again, many of them did not survive long enough to be remembered in the history books! On local journeys into the forest I carry a small medical kit, but for longer journeys & have a larger kit. The glass bottle in the middle of this image is what I use as an eye wash glass. Getting something in the eye is very debilitating, yet many people fail to carry anything for this problem. Having experienced this many times I searched for a period alternative. This bottle serves the purpose very well. I totally agree Black Hand, all water should be boiled. Somewhere along that water course you can bet there is a dead animal either in the water or close to it! I carry water filter bags & boil the water for topping up my water bottle. Keith. LeLoup, What are the rest of the items in your medical kit? |
|
|
|
Post by hawkeyes on May 9, 2019 6:59:10 GMT -7
My mindset is exactly the same as everyones on all points. Lovely thread for discussion!
For medical purposes I have a period kit and also utilize a trauma module kit, which I have access to the good usgi kits we are issued. I'm a believer there are many period medicines that are exceptional, however one shouldn't rely on 18th century techniques when a life threatening situation arises.
My food list is almost identical to BH, besides natural staples I'll forage along the way.
|
|
|
|
Post by Black Hand on May 9, 2019 13:20:34 GMT -7
Hand, Thanks for the list! I did learn one thing about dried supplies, pinto beans take FOREVER to cook. I tried the short boil method to failure at the last event I attended. They tasted good but never got soft in the 2 days I cooked them! I've heard that a sheep herder's trick is to cook them using the soak method about halfway, spread them out to dry and cook them the rest of the way afield. I've been told to abandon them for Navy beans which are easier to cook. Have you ever made the original recipe Portable soup? I'm tempted but it sounds like a long road to something not so great.. I've made portable soup the old way and it is time-consuming. From a couple gallons of original liquid stock, this is what I got - most is in the bag, but I ended up with a little over a cup of cubes that look like caramel and taste like soup. There are a few links to portable soup recipes in the Library (Interesting & useful links and information).  Try Black-eyed peas instead of Pinto. They are supposed to cook quicker and not require a lengthy soak. I cooked them once before without difficulty, but I prefer barley over beans... |
|
Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990
|
Post by Keith on May 9, 2019 13:51:21 GMT -7
I have the same attitude when it comes to medical supplies, I very much doubt that any woodsrunner ever carried a medical kit, but then again, many of them did not survive long enough to be remembered in the history books! On local journeys into the forest I carry a small medical kit, but for longer journeys & have a larger kit. The glass bottle in the middle of this image is what I use as an eye wash glass. Getting something in the eye is very debilitating, yet many people fail to carry anything for this problem. Having experienced this many times I searched for a period alternative. This bottle serves the purpose very well. I totally agree Black Hand, all water should be boiled. Somewhere along that water course you can bet there is a dead animal either in the water or close to it! I carry water filter bags & boil the water for topping up my water bottle. Keith. LeLoup, What are the rest of the items in your medical kit? Salt for washing out a wound, Betadine, bandages, forceps, tweezers & scissors. Since I have added the forceps I could now get rid of the tweezers. I have some dried fennel in paper. Keith. |
|
Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990
|
Post by Keith on May 9, 2019 14:51:47 GMT -7
My food list is very basic: flour, oats, rice, dried peas, dried meat, dried pumpkin, dried apple, bread, cheese. Sometimes I carry cooked meat & fresh fruit & popped corn. I always carry something that can be eaten without cooking, as it is sometimes not advised to make a fire & attract unwanted guests! I too forage along the way, but as I do most of my journeying in winter, there is usually very little available to forage. In the past I have carried potatoes & hunted ducks & made a stew. I always carry a bottle of rum.    Keith. |
|
|
|
Post by Black Hand on May 9, 2019 16:04:16 GMT -7
I have the Hiker model. Replacement filters are ~$50, or were when I last replaced a filter about 10 years ago. One needs to evaluate the size of the pores in the filter to see what it will remove. Some filters I have used in the lab are 0.22um and considered "sterilizing" filters - i.e. stuff coming out is for all intents & purposes sterile (bacteria are removed). Viruses are trick buggers as they really aren't filterable due to their size with common methods. In this case, chemicals such as iodine, chlorine compounds, ozone or boiling are used to disrupt/damage/destroy the nucleic acid and "kill" the virus (viruses aren't really considered to be alive in the general biological sense). You know, I lied...as Sicilians do, I was given a Sawyer filter that has a unique system where you squeeze a bag of unfiltered water through the filter into a clean bag but I haven't tried it yet. Is this yours?: www.amazon.com/Katadyn-Transparent-Lightweight-Backpacking-Preparedness/dp/B075TTTX2R/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?keywords=katydyn+pur+filter&qid=1557408799&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmr0I have one of those Sawyer filter systems too - It is a backup to the other filter I have in my survival pack. The Katadyn filter you show is likely a more recent version of the filter I have - the general shape and operation look close/identical. Mine looks more like with one in the image below with a minor exception - the output (left - designed to fit into the opening of a Nalgene-type bottle) has a short spout projecting from the bottom of the housing onto which I have stuck a cork so it will fit in the spout of my leather canteen. Allows for a 2-handed operation of the filter without having to fight the spout. expeditionoffroad.com/assets/images/katadyn_hiker_filter.jpgI keep the clean end in a zip-top bag (the tubing extends through the zip) to avoid contamination from the dirty end that goes in the water. I tried water purification tablets ONCE decades ago - the water tasted awful and made me more thirsty. One can also use household chlorine bleach or iodine tincture to chemically sterilize water in a survival situation. I must take exception to you saying Sicilians lie. We don't - It is more a creative massaging and rephrasing of the truth to suit our purposes...  |
|
|
|
Post by hawkeyes on May 9, 2019 16:55:52 GMT -7
I use a Sawyer as my main filtering system. When I backpack into backcountry terrain I never carry water due to weight, like to stay at 30# or below on weight. My filter system has always been a true lifesaver and I've drank from some questionable sources for the sake of testing.
I'll second tabs, they are terrible IMO. Certainly the ones uncle Sam issues in our IFAK kits when we deploy.
A good filter system and first aid supplies are were HC stops for me personally, but I still think knowing the old methods are just as important and a valuable skill.
|
|
|
|
Post by Black Hand on May 10, 2019 4:54:34 GMT -7
My filter setup.  |
|
|
|
Post by Black Hand on May 10, 2019 15:58:10 GMT -7
Personal grooming: Bone-handled toothbrush Tooth powder in cane container Horn comb Mirror Castile soap  |
|
