18th Century Virginia Rifle

That is indeed an interesting rifle. Can't say I have come across the like before. As you say, lots of English - and military - influence at work there. Looks like the ubiquitous English round-faced trade lock, too. It would be interesting to know how the museum arrived at the Tidewater attribution. Maybe some provenance info that we are not privy to?

Indeed, I would love to know their provenance info on this rifle. 

I'm reminded of the bias towards English styling on the Tidewater and Piedmont Areas of Virginia in the period and especially by the more affluent, as shown in this quote from the article:  "Philip Ludwell Lee of Stratford   A Virginia Gentleman on the Eve of the Revolution: Philip Ludwell Lee of Stratford"

"Col. Phil also enjoyed hunting. The inventory of his possessions included “1 Rifle new made by Turvey” and “1 new Turvey,” as well as a fowling piece and a gun.57 The rifle and unspecified firearm were probably made by gunsmith William Turvey (II) of London. Most Virginia planters purchased locally-made rifles, but Col. Phil had sent to London to acquire one of the best rifles available at the time. Much more accurate than those made in the colonies, this rifle was used for recreational game hunting and target matches. Turvey rifles were elegant, artistic pieces, and an obvious status symbol in the colonies."

www.stratfordhall.org/collections-research/staff-research/a-virginia-gentleman-on-the-eve-of-the-revolution-philip-ludwell-lee-of-stratford/

Gus

I stopped here before I followed up on the other forum that I also posted this rifle on.  Seems it is not a Virginia Rifle after all, according to Rich Pierce and Dave Person:

"Rich has the right idea. It is the famous RCA 119 "Bullard" rifle Shumway thought was of southern origin Virginia based on the English hardware and styling. However, as Rich mentioned, it is now pretty firmly attributed to John Newcomer of Lancaster, PA based on a signed gun of similar style and workmanship.

dave"  

So I will defer to those gentlemen.

Gus

The name Newcomer rings a bell:

The Pennsylvania Gazette
November 25, 1772
FOUR DOLLARS Reward. LOST, or taken out of a waggon loaded with hops, betwixt the river Sasquehanna and Philadelphia, upon the 5th, 6th, or 7th day of this present month November, a strong board CASE, without mark or direction, inclosing a very neat new FOWLING PIECE, 4 feet 2 inches in the barrel, 5 feet 5 inches the whole length of the gun, with a curled walnut stock, sliding loops, mounted with brass, the foresight and thumb piece silver, the maker’s name John Newcomer, engraven upon the hind part of the barrel, near the figure of a man’s head, and J. Newcomer engraven on the lock. Whoever has found the same, is desired to deliver it to Joseph Vandegrist, at the sign of the Cross keys, in Chestnut street, Philadelphia; to Caleb Way, at the sign of the Waggon, on the Philadelphia road; to Matthias Slough, at the sign of the Swan, in Lancaster; or to James Wright, in Hempfield, near Susquehanna, and they shall receive FOUR DOLLARS reward. JAMES WRIGHT.

Spence

Great quote, Spence,

Thank you.

Gus

Good point.  I've seen it written quite a few times that if one wants a repro of an FIW rifle, then one should look to German made rifles of the period or to a significantly lesser degree, English Rifles.  This even though both were "transitioning" during this period.  

There was not a good sized Rifle Culture in the Piedmont of Virginia at this time and it seems even less so in the Tidewater regions.  The Tidewater more English, for the few rifles known, such as the Turvey Rifle owned by Lt. Col. Phillip Lee of Stratford.

Gus 

Stretching Jaeger (sorry no Umlaut symbol on my keyboard) Rifles and barrels had been going on here for two decades before the FIW.  I have also read that the Swiss already at that time were using long barrels for target rifles, though I admit I have not investigated that in depth.  

I don't want to in any way leave the impression the following information was the main or only way rifles with longer barrels came to be used and preferred in this country.   The following is but one part of what was happening at time.

Enter Caspar Wistar, a man who immigrated to this country in 1717 at age 21 with nine pence in his pocket and his Jaeger rifle.  Later on he began trading in many things including German Rifles and Barrels; 

"Transatlantic Trade

In 1730 Wistar established a trade connection with Georg Friedrich Hölzer, a family friend in the Palatinate. He ordered goods from Germany, which were then transported by German immigrants in their personal belongings in order to avoid British duties and then sold in his shop in Philadelphia. Using the immigrant transportation system for illicit trade was quite common among non-British immigrants at the time since the restrictions and duties imposed by the Navigation Acts were prohibitive. Although nowhere near as profitable as his land speculation, Wistar’s trade in imported commodities from the Rhine and Neckar Valleys represented an important step in his entrepreneurial and personal affairs. Establishing himself as the main supplier in an emerging market, he was able to furnish his fellow immigrants with specialized services since the items he imported (knives, scissors, needles, brass and iron goods, copper kettles, mirrors, eyeglasses, tobacco pipes, ivory combs, lace, and custom-made rifles) were not readily available in the colonies at the time. He only ordered high quality items and managed to attain market dominance in rifles by making sure his source in Germany was kept secret.


Moreover, regular communication and commerce with his home region enabled him, the oldest son, to retain his role as family patriarch after his father died in 1726. On Wistar’s request, his business partner Hölzer looked after his remaining family during the French-Palatine War (1733-1736) and secured legacies for his family, friends, and associates. In his trade dealings, Wistar relied on a network of brokers each of whom had their own set of contacts. Thus he managed to build a web of relationships of mutual obligation and dependence that stretched from Pennsylvania to the Rhine and Neckar Valleys."

www.immigrantentrepreneurship.org/entry.php?rec=1

"Caspar Wistar imported German rifles in the 1730s and 1740s, asking his supplier to tailor them for the American market, where consumers “prefer rifles with barrels that are three feet and three to four inches long.”[26]" 

www.immigrantentrepreneurship.org/entry.php?rec=180 

Gus