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Post by brokennock on May 9, 2020 10:41:05 GMT -7
I'm working on my pattern for a pair of center seam pucker toe moccasins. I have a piece of split bison leather for material, but, of the options I have on hand I'm not sure what to stitch with.
I have, but greatly dislike, artificial sinew. I also have some linen "thread" from Tandy, unwaxed, that is more like light kite string for size. The rest of the thread I have is hemp or linen, but of a size/weight closet to what one might sew clothing with. The last is what I do most of my leather work with, it is why I don't understand the whole "lock the needle by passing it through the thread thing" as it is too thin to put the needle through.
As it is the 1st pair of this design, and I'm sure they won't be perfect, and I'm sure I will be making others, should I "suck it up," and use the fake sinew? Or is the thinner hemp thread okay? Then get something better for the next pair? Any ideas for what to get that is better and more appropriate for the task?
Thanks.
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Post by nwterritorywoodsman on May 9, 2020 11:00:23 GMT -7
I've seen some use a buckskin thong to sew with, but have no clue if its actually PC to the 18th century. Anyone know? The guy in this video describes as was stated above. m.youtube.com/watch?v=-nORTUJiDAg&t=1sNWT Woodsman Edit: I've never used this method, only artificial sinew and hemp on moccs. |
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Post by Black Hand on May 9, 2020 11:42:27 GMT -7
I'm working on my pattern for a pair of center seam pucker toe moccasins. I have a piece of split bison leather for material, but, of the options I have on hand I'm not sure what to stitch with. I have, but greatly dislike, artificial sinew. I also have some linen "thread" from Tandy, unwaxed, that is more like light kite string for size. The rest of the thread I have is hemp or linen, but of a size/weight closet to what one might sew clothing with. The last is what I do most of my leather work with, it is why I don't understand the whole "lock the needle by passing it through the thread thing" as it is too thin to put the needle through. As it is the 1st pair of this design, and I'm sure they won't be perfect, and I'm sure I will be making others, should I "suck it up," and use the fake sinew? Or is the thinner hemp thread okay? Then get something better for the next pair? Any ideas for what to get that is better and more appropriate for the task? Thanks. I do the majority of my moccasin sewing with doubled 2ply linen thread. For pucker toes, I'd use the thicker linen for the puckering and the thinner thread doubled and waxed for the other seams. Then again, you could use the thicker for everything. Don't stress too much, if the thread breaks when you try to pucker, you know the thicker thread will be better. |
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Post by brokennock on May 9, 2020 12:06:22 GMT -7
I've seen some use a buckskin thong to sew with, but have no clue if its actually PC to the 18th century. Anyone know? The guy in this video describes as was stated above. m.youtube.com/watch?v=-nORTUJiDAg&t=1sNWT Woodsman Edit: I've never used this method, only artificial sinew and hemp on moccs. Funny. I was just watching that video. Between his, Steve at Stillwater woodcraft, and Cassandra from the Muscogee(Creek)Nation Public Relations I think I have a good idea of laying out my pattern. They each have a slightly different variation, Steve's being the most different in the sewing, but, I like how the pucker doesn't come all the way to the top on his. However, they are the more complex of the three to sew. Of course, the YouTube rabbit hole has had me watching hours and hours of moccasin videos, and other similar stuff, but these three are the ones I decided to work from. |
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Post by brokennock on May 9, 2020 12:09:19 GMT -7
Here is the video from Cassandra, I find her way of speaking and some of her terminology VERY annoying, but the overall information is good,
This one from, "CPN tribal member and employee Lakota Pochedley" is pretty good too, |
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Post by brokennock on May 9, 2020 12:11:11 GMT -7
I find it interesting that all the makers using Tandy "buckskin" are making their moccasin to be worn rough side out. I was always told to wear leather "the way the animal wore it."
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Post by nwterritorywoodsman on May 9, 2020 12:24:27 GMT -7
Rough side out is to mimic the look of braintan, im no tanner, but I believe that during the brain tanning process, the smooth shiny layer is scraped off and your left with two rough sides.
NWT Woodsman
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Post by nwterritorywoodsman on May 9, 2020 12:42:34 GMT -7
Here is german tan wich is oil tanned if I remeber right. Sueded on both sides, this is the material that I have used for my center seam woodland moccs.  Sorry for the cruddy pic, but this shows my german tan folded so you can see both sides are sueded.  Then heres a belt bag I made out of commercial tan. Only one sides sueded. I recently replaced this bag with one made out of german tan lined with pillow ticking, glad I did. NWT Woodsman |
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Post by Black Hand on May 9, 2020 14:13:31 GMT -7
I find it interesting that all the makers using Tandy "buckskin" are making their moccasin to be worn rough side out. I was always told to wear leather "the way the animal wore it." You can also remove the "shiny" side so the leather is sueded on both sides. Make sure to dampen/wet & pre-stretch the leather - some of the "buckskin" is very stretchy and gets floppy after a short time, requiring trimming and re-sewing.. |
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Post by brokennock on May 9, 2020 15:14:24 GMT -7
My bison is split so rough on both sides. Just a different kind of rough. I'm assuming the fluffier, darker side was the outside of the bison, the other side looks more natural.
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Post by Black Hand on May 9, 2020 15:25:18 GMT -7
I'm betting the fluffier side is the flesh side...
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Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990 
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Post by Keith on May 9, 2020 16:03:36 GMT -7
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Post by Black Hand on May 9, 2020 16:12:52 GMT -7
I'm not a fan of Artificial Sinew - it looks artificial and nothing like sinew. While I have not used any for many years, I wouldn't hesitate to use it to sew on a second sole if hard-pressed, since it is somewhat more wear-resistant (and very few people will see the sole). I wouldn't use it to sew anything else, though I do still have one pair of Plains 3-piece moccasins and a pair of Side-seams I sewed with the fake stuff decades ago that are still going strong (but rarely worn).
All that said - if no one can see it, is it really there...? (Did I just say that?) Better to have period moccasins sewn with fake sinew (for inside seams) than a non-pc pair that you buy.
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Post by brokennock on May 9, 2020 16:27:46 GMT -7
Thanks for the input everyone. I do have some slightly coarser hemp thread I used for the "craft store" bag, but not enough of the smallest size, and the next size up is thicker than the Tandy linen thread.
I know it can't mostly won't be visible, and I was slightly tempted, but, I can not bring myself to use the artificial sinew. Torn between the Tandy linen and doubled up fine hemp.
Maybe I'll do one of each. My left foot seems to be higher than the right where the top of the foot meets the ankle, making getting moccasins and leggings on and off a bear, so I'll maybe use the thicker linen for that one.
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Post by spence on May 9, 2020 16:29:35 GMT -7
Joseph Doddridge, Notes on the Settlements and Indian Wars of the Western Parts of Virginia and Pennsylvania 1763-1783
"The moccasons in ordinary use cost but a few hours labor to make them. This was done by an instrument denominated a moccason awl, which was made of the backspring of an old clasp knife. This awl with its buckhorn handle was an appendage of every shot pouch strap, together with a roll of buckskin for mending the moccasons. This was the labor of almost every evening. They were sewed together and patched with deer skin thongs, or whangs, as they were commonly called.
Spence
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