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Post by brokennock on Jun 15, 2020 3:39:11 GMT -7
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Post by paranger on Jun 15, 2020 4:35:15 GMT -7
I proceed with some trepidation, as this has proven to be a sensitive topic. Nevertheless, I will say again that before the Revolution- particularly in the north - cotton shirts are exceedingly rare. Try finding one in a probate inventory or runaway ad north of the Mason Dixon line (and if you do, tell me how many other entries with linen shirts you had to get through before finding it). Now, if you are French, it is a different story. I have seen multiple French early 18th c. equipment lists mentioning the issue of cotton shirts. Next, let's visit patterns. Checks are most common documented, but they are different from the 19th. C. "Gingham" type you typically see on Civil War and "mountain man" fur trade era shirts. The following link shows 18th c. appropriate linen checks researched by William Booth Draper in early English textile records: wmboothdraper.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3_15_18&zenid=fe9f6c5c26dd081016a6ad70526bd5ac
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Post by brokennock on Jun 15, 2020 5:24:15 GMT -7
Thanks PaRanger. I am mostly questioning the style, the way the shoulders are cut, the separate piece forming them on the 1st shirt, the sizes and shapes of the cuffs and collars. There isn't much I can do about what material something is made of unless I make it myself, that won't be happening. I don't think most people can tell the difference between a cotton shirt and a linen shirt from the average distance I generally let people get to me. I have trouble telling the two apart until I can closely inspect and maybe feel the material. I would prefer linen, but, I'll take what I can get/afford.
Thank you for the link, I'll be checking it out a little later.
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Post by paranger on Jun 15, 2020 5:39:37 GMT -7
The pattern looks to be in the ballpark. I have one hand sewn shirt with a double reinforcing layer of fabric on the shoulders, leaving a seam similar to that in the first pic, but I honestly can't document it. I do not recall seeing one quite like it in Gehret's Rural Pennsylvania Clothing, but it seems plausible to me. I wouldn't let that particular feature be a show-stopper, though given a choice, I would personally pick the one without it.
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Post by paranger on Jun 15, 2020 6:06:25 GMT -7
Thanks PaRanger. I am mostly questioning the style, the way the shoulders are cut, the separate piece forming them on the 1st shirt, the sizes and shapes of the cuffs and collars. There isn't much I can do about what material something is made of unless I make it myself, that won't be happening. I don't think most people can tell the difference between a cotton shirt and a linen shirt from the average distance I generally let people get to me. I have trouble telling the two apart until I can closely inspect and maybe feel the material. I would prefer linen, but, I'll take what I can get/afford. Thank you for the link, I'll be checking it out a little later. BTW, Bethlehem Trading Post has nice linen shirts (English and French styles) for $80.Maybe $20 more than CC?
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Post by nwterritorywoodsman on Jun 15, 2020 6:43:06 GMT -7
Id stay away from the crazy crow shirts IMHO. I had this same shirt from them just different color. It was inferior compared to my Townsends shirt. The crazy crow collar was very thin and flimsy, and the buttons where plastic. Which I did replace. I just felt the total quality wasnt what it should have been. Pay a little more and get a quality shirt.
NWT Woodsman
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Post by armando on Jun 17, 2020 16:36:20 GMT -7
I've wondered about 18th c. collars myself. How wide and most intriguing to me was if they had any button-type closure to keep the v-neck closed? Or was this the job of a scarf or cravat?
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Post by paranger on Jun 17, 2020 16:54:01 GMT -7
I've wondered about 18th c. collars myself. How wide and most intriguing to me was if they had any button-type closure to keep the v-neck closed? Or was this the job of a scarf or cravat? They most certainly had buttons - there were one and two button versions, in fact. I recommend Ellen Gehret's "Rural Pennsylvania Clothing" and Beth Gilgun's " Tidings From the 18th Century" for reference.
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Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990
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Post by Keith on Jun 17, 2020 23:25:35 GMT -7
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Post by artificer on Jun 18, 2020 0:37:46 GMT -7
Thanks PaRanger. I am mostly questioning the style, the way the shoulders are cut, the separate piece forming them on the 1st shirt, the sizes and shapes of the cuffs and collars. There isn't much I can do about what material something is made of unless I make it myself, that won't be happening. I don't think most people can tell the difference between a cotton shirt and a linen shirt from the average distance I generally let people get to me. I have trouble telling the two apart until I can closely inspect and maybe feel the material. I would prefer linen, but, I'll take what I can get/afford. Thank you for the link, I'll be checking it out a little later. BTW, Bethlehem Trading Post has nice linen shirts (English and French styles) for $80.Maybe $20 more than CC? WOW, I sure wish I had known about them when I was doing a Private Soldier in the Major's Coy of the 42nd RHR, the Black Watch. We had a devil of a time getting a shirt with a tall enough collar to properly wear a military neck stock. Not only that, but many of the shirts offered by many sutlers just had too small of necks for many people, so even if the collars were tall enough, they didn't close or fit correctly. Far, FAR better to have a neck that closes correctly and is a bit loose than one that is too tight!!
Gus
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ewoaf
City-dweller
Posts: 203
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Post by ewoaf on Jun 18, 2020 5:29:28 GMT -7
I've wondered about 18th c. collars myself. How wide and most intriguing to me was if they had any button-type closure to keep the v-neck closed? Or was this the job of a scarf or cravat? Shirt buckles.
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Jun 19, 2020 3:53:36 GMT -7
I've wondered about 18th c. collars myself. How wide and most intriguing to me was if they had any button-type closure to keep the v-neck closed? Or was this the job of a scarf or cravat? Shirt buckles. Eyes, Do you have a pick of a shirt buckle?
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Post by brokennock on Jun 19, 2020 7:40:09 GMT -7
I might have seen some shirt buckles in the "buckles" section of the Smiling Fox Forge and/or the Quartermaster General website.
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ewoaf
City-dweller
Posts: 203
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Post by ewoaf on Jun 19, 2020 11:06:19 GMT -7
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Jun 20, 2020 12:28:44 GMT -7
Eyes, Pretty cool, I like how they run the gamut from plain and simple to Masonic affiliation to fancy and jeweled. They would be fixed at the mid point of the neck opening?
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