Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990
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Post by Keith on Nov 24, 2020 18:37:55 GMT -7
This is one that was custom made for me. Keith. Very nice, what are the dimensions? Blade profile reminds me of the Springfield 1903/A3 bayonet, minus the fuller on the spine. 19 & a quarter inches by one & a half inches blade.
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Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990
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Post by Keith on Nov 24, 2020 18:40:43 GMT -7
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Post by Black Hand on Nov 24, 2020 19:56:32 GMT -7
Yes, even period cavalry swords came in both falchion (curved) and spadroon (straight) forms. This is why I really like you guys - esoteric knowledge!
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ewoaf
City-dweller
Posts: 203
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Post by ewoaf on Nov 25, 2020 17:41:24 GMT -7
above is the 12" blade knife Below is the Monroe cuttoe
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Post by artificer on Nov 26, 2020 2:49:36 GMT -7
I know short swords were popular during the 18th century, which somewhat replaced the rapier, hence the French cuttoe which I know Washington had and carried along with other swords in his possession. Most terminology I've found indeed points back to the Jaeger troops of the period concerning the term "hunting sword". Somewhat of a utilitarian weapon for sure. This type of weapon certainly intrigues me, given I've never forged an actual sword of sorts. I may have to replicate this Jeager sword as well... The more I study the images the more I'm liking the overall blade design. How does it handle? Balanced towards the hilt or is it forward heavy? I'm assuming given the nature of the sword it balances towards the hilt allowing for very quick slashing and precise strikes. I'd very much like to get my paws on that beauty for some studying. Is the tang peened to the pommel? I am surprised the blade doesn't have a fuller, which given its size likely wouldn't make a drastic difference anyways come to think of it. Back in the mid 1970's, I was extremely surprised when I walked into a small gun shop in Muncie, IN and they had 6 or 7 original hunting swords for sale in a shop that didn't really have antiques or collectibles. As it turned out, they were all German Hunting Swords and taken by G.I.'s as trophies of war from WWII. Since they were short enough to fit into the G.I.'s duffel bags, they were popular when found. I did a little research and at least 2 or 3 were from the 18th century and the remainder were from the early 19th century. A couple had hilts like Pararanger's, though most had Stag grips. A couple even had very nice D guards on them. I would have loved to purchase one of the ones with a D guard, but at $ 175.00, it was a bit too pricey for my pocket book, as I could not really use it for ML or some reenacting I did in those days. Those and other original hunting swords I've handled over the years all seemed well balanced throughout.
Full Flat Ground Blades were more common in the 18th century and early 19th century than one might imagine. However on swords the flat grind normally was used on less expensive swords, but still quite serviceable. See the link below for explanation of blade grind designs. On knives and including short Hunting Swords, it was more common than on sword blades, though. agrussell.com/knife-articles/blade-grinds
Gus
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Post by hawkeyes on Nov 27, 2020 12:53:33 GMT -7
Decided to reproduce a broken saber knife as this is a piece much easier to source in terms of documentation for a larger blade. Will be a Christmas gift for my father. Decided on a piece of 1080 steel for ease of forging and overall just a well rounded blade steel. Forged the cutting edge to 11.5" with a 5" tang. 7" to the curve and a taper towards the tip. Much more work to go. Blade looks warpped, which it isn't. Angle of the image.
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Post by hawkeyes on Nov 28, 2020 7:05:13 GMT -7
Today's plan is to forge the bevels, do some file work and opt for a good quench on this broken sword knife. To be continued...
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Post by hawkeyes on Nov 28, 2020 11:41:38 GMT -7
Bevels forged in, rough hand file work and tang pin holes drilled, enough work for one day. Next will be a good heat treat and final finishing of the blade. I think my plans have been changed... Due to a more pronounced curve I'll likely turn this blade into a mini display saber, but fully functional with a nice wooden leather wrapped scabbard. Even without a handle the blade feels very good in the hand, slashes very naturally and is comfortable. I'll likely bend the tang back a tad to make the handle replicate the flow of a saber handle.
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Post by artificer on Nov 29, 2020 12:06:00 GMT -7
Interesting piece. Look forward to seeing it when you have the handle on it.
Gus
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Post by hawkeyes on Nov 29, 2020 12:40:58 GMT -7
Interesting piece. Look forward to seeing it when you have the handle on it. Gus I shortened the blade by 2" and re forged the bevels today along with adjusting the tang. I just couldn't handle that pronounced curve... To much sweep for that short a blade. So, as of now I'm definitely happier with the efforts applied today. Believe the end result will be much more fitting for what I'm trying to accomplish here as a broken sword knife. Hoping to get a quench on this piece tomorrow.
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Post by artificer on Nov 30, 2020 0:21:20 GMT -7
Interesting piece. Look forward to seeing it when you have the handle on it. Gus I shortened the blade by 2" and re forged the bevels today along with adjusting the tang. I just couldn't handle that pronounced curve... To much sweep for that short a blade. So, as of now I'm definitely happier with the efforts applied today. Believe the end result will be much more fitting for what I'm trying to accomplish here as a broken sword knife. Hoping to get a quench on this piece tomorrow. I like what you did with it. At the risk of being thought too nitpicky, I might suggest you not call it a broken sword knife, though, if you are going for something made in the 18th century. It still seems to have too much curve unless you are going for a cut down early 19th century cavalry sword like the ones in the following links. I just can't think of an 18th century sword with that much curve that someone in the colonies might have access to? www.antique-swords.com/R83-US-Nathan-Starr-Model-1812-contract-cavalry-saber.htmlor: worthingtongalleries.com/shop/american-civil-war-2/nathan-starr-model-1812-contract-calvary-saber-used-in-war-of-1812/ Gus
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Post by paranger on Nov 30, 2020 5:05:29 GMT -7
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Post by hawkeyes on Nov 30, 2020 5:11:40 GMT -7
Yes sir! I came across that link while searching a few days ago, thanks for posting it up. That is what I'm trying to do, except broken. I'll do my best to mimic the handle and guard, but will be forgoing the knuckle/ hand bow guard but will have evidence of it once being installed.
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Post by artificer on Nov 30, 2020 12:28:02 GMT -7
The Potter sword is not nearly curved as much near the tang as Hawkeye's blade. Much further up the blade, maybe so, but then the tang would have needed to have been forged or cut from the blade that if broken, already proved it was not up to the rigors of combat. Further, it would have taken a real blade/sword smith to rectify such a bad blade and way beyond what a regular blacksmith could do. Hawkeye's blade is fully believable as a Hunting Sword made in that style. Why try to go way out on a limb to justify it as something else? . Gus.
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Post by hawkeyes on Nov 30, 2020 12:53:26 GMT -7
Quenched and tempered today, excellent results all around. Time for fit and finish. Forged out a smaller sheeps foot via a provided pattern from paranger, not to full scale but a tad shorter as a trial run with the leftover steel from this blade. When it's all said and done its not an exact replication of any exact period piece. What it is regardless is a fine gift for my father who will be tickled pink to display it. Regardless of replicating this or that the basis of "what" it is indeed is off the above example and definitely within the realm of realistic expectations to what would have been done to a broken cuttoe or saber with a serviceable handle and blade section. A true hunting sword indeed will be made, when I can make a steel run that is for a worthy piece of stock. Nothing I have currently can be drawn to the length needed.
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