RyanAK
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Once scalped…
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 13, 2022 7:25:25 GMT -7
Totally understand what you’re trying to do and it’s very helpful. I’ve been trying to do it for months, including scenarios where an arm was purchased on my way to Shamokin via Lancaster and Harris’s Landing.
In my mind, I’ve narrowed things down to an English import fowler such as the Bumford fowler in Of Sorts… where in the general location of Philadelphia a type such as this would have been easily attainable.
Or…
A colonial gun with imported parts on basic English or Germanic architecture stocked in maple or cherry.
These could honestly be almost identical guns but for the stocking wood and carving/engraving. Or the colonial gun may show some of the German influences in stock profile.
Either gun will have an English octagon-to round .62 barrel and likely an English import lock. Possibly a German lock on the colonial gun.
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Post by artificer on Jun 13, 2022 8:41:28 GMT -7
Not sure if this helps, but in Philly at the time; Caspar Wister (first generation from the Palatine in Germany) had quite a side business importing locks, barrels (both rifled and smoothbore) and whole guns from back home in Germany throughout the 1740's. Caspar paid immigrants to bring things in from Germany hidden in their luggage to avoid the high tariffs on German goods. Those were German locks, so we know they were available both in Philly and Christian Springs. English locks were also available.
I'd say if you want to go with Moravian styling, then maple stocked and a German Lock. If you want to go with British styling, then European Walnut would be correct, but a restock would have been in maple or cherry.
Gus
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RyanAK
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Once scalped…
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 13, 2022 8:59:16 GMT -7
Yeah. We’re on the same page. I wish I had an image of the Moravian gun that’s been suggested. Or another Christian Springs gun that isn’t a rifle. I haven’t had luck tracking that down yet, so don’t have a good vision in my mind of that style of smoothbore.
One fella on the other forum made a good argument that since many Indians were equipping themselves with rifles at this time, a gent heading to the frontier would want to be equally armed. Food for thought for the next build!
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RyanAK
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Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 13, 2022 13:50:55 GMT -7
And Gus… only parts available before 1750!
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 15, 2022 5:26:24 GMT -7
Here are some pics of the gun in Moravian Gunmakers II. Apparently smoothbore guns… fowler types and not just smoothrifles… were made in some numbers in Bethlehem and Christian Springs, but very few examples are known. The gun isn’t dated, but it seems early enough for 1750. It’s really an interesting firelock.    |
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 15, 2022 5:30:33 GMT -7
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Post by artificer on Jun 15, 2022 11:06:05 GMT -7
Here are some pics of the gun in Moravian Gunmakers II. Apparently smoothbore guns… fowler types and not just smoothrifles… were made in some numbers in Bethlehem and Christian Springs, but very few examples are known. The gun isn’t dated, but it seems early enough for 1750. It’s really an interesting firelock. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> My eyes may be playing tricks on me, but it looks like there is a rear sight on the barrel in the top pic? That buttplate has too much curve for a gun you will shoot bird shot at small game, IMO. Gus |
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Post by artificer on Jun 15, 2022 11:07:11 GMT -7
This is a contemporary interpretation of another Moravian smoothbore. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> I very much like the less curvature in this buttplate, though a flat one would be nicer to shoot small game with birdshot. Gus |
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RyanAK
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Once scalped…
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 15, 2022 14:50:37 GMT -7
Here are some pics of the gun in Moravian Gunmakers II. Apparently smoothbore guns… fowler types and not just smoothrifles… were made in some numbers in Bethlehem and Christian Springs, but very few examples are known. The gun isn’t dated, but it seems early enough for 1750. It’s really an interesting firelock. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> My eyes may be playing tricks on me, but it looks like there is a rear sight on the barrel in the top pic? That buttplate has too much curve for a gun you will shoot bird shot at small game, IMO. Gus There’s a very small rear sight. Better view in the second pic and here.  I agree about the butt plate. It was my first comment about the gun. Butt stock still has a bit of the ‘Roman nose’ shape to it. Overall a really interesting piece. |
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 15, 2022 14:51:32 GMT -7
This is a contemporary interpretation of another Moravian smoothbore. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> I very much like the less curvature in this buttplate, though a flat one would be nicer to shoot small game with birdshot. Gus I like the overall stock profile much better in this one. |
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Post by artificer on Jun 15, 2022 15:46:34 GMT -7
I am NOT by any means expert enough on flat lock plate locks to say how common they would have been on a fowling piece/smoothbore in your time period. I know round faced locks are an easy, YES; but I'm not sure I trust even myself with what kind of a flat faced lock would be correct for this period. Maybe someone on this forum can document which flat faced lock would be correct? I'd also suggest check the other forum for what repro locks would be correct.
Gus
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 15, 2022 16:36:47 GMT -7
The original gun in the grainy pics from the book appears to have a round faced lock without hammer bridle. To my eye at least. The contemporary gun is definitely a flat faced lock. No telling how true he stayed to the original he copied. Either way, I’ll likely use a round English lock for either a Moravian gun or an English import fowler.
10 pages of discussion and I finally have it narrowed to two types. 🙄
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Post by artificer on Jun 15, 2022 21:30:51 GMT -7
It took a few seconds for your terminology of "hammer bridle" to set in, THEN it struck me you are using the correct period terminology. Well done.
Gus
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 16, 2022 12:06:46 GMT -7
Oh… I do try. 😎
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Post by artificer on Jun 16, 2022 12:40:08 GMT -7
I have no idea if you have any inkling to do living history, but this kind of period detail can really help you out. Also, your new experience sewing period clothing is interesting to bring up at a living history as well. Gus |
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