RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 27, 2022 18:20:30 GMT -7
I am a details man for myself That’s for sure. I’m now officially an actual ‘thread counter.’ Didja know that in 18th century Pennsylvania, flax based fabric with a thread count of less that 37 ends per inch was classified as ‘tow’? And above 37 ends per inch is ‘linen’. If you see a note in a period doc such as “Linen 1000”, the number referred to the loom reed number.
Yeah. Nerd. 🤓
Been using that emoji a lot lately…
Leather. It looks like, thankfully, Tandy is pretty good about classifying the tannage of their leathers. Even the exotics and dyed/oiled. That’s pretty encouraging.
Whether or not Amos (actual name) at the Amish harness shop is knowledgeable about what he has is something all together a different matter.
And yeah… I’d love some PC tips on dying leather. I have walnut, which was ok once scrubbed the glazing off. Worked good to add tannins to get iron to go black. But while my heart may be vinegaroon black 🖤, my personality leans to mud brown. 😐
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Post by Black Hand on Jun 27, 2022 18:39:26 GMT -7
Two of 3 emojis don't translate into images on my end...
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Post by artificer on Jun 28, 2022 6:53:52 GMT -7
I am a details man for myself That’s for sure. I’m now officially an actual ‘thread counter.’ Didja know that in 18th century Pennsylvania, flax based fabric with a thread count of less that 37 ends per inch was classified as ‘tow’? And above 37 ends per inch is ‘linen’. If you see a note in a period doc such as “Linen 1000”, the number referred to the loom reed number. Yeah. Nerd. 🤓 Been using that emoji a lot lately… Leather. It looks like, thankfully, Tandy is pretty good about classifying the tannage of their leathers. Even the exotics and dyed/oiled. That’s pretty encouraging. Whether or not Amos (actual name) at the Amish harness shop is knowledgeable about what he has is something all together a different matter. And yeah… I’d love some PC tips on dying leather. I have walnut, which was ok once scrubbed the glazing off. Worked good to add tannins to get iron to go black. But while my heart may be vinegaroon black 🖤, my personality leans to mud brown. 😐 OK, if you want a darker brown when using natural walnut dye, then I've read you add copper to it so it darkens, but doesn't go black. Unfortunately, I've never done that, so I can't help with how you do it. Still it gives you something to begin more searching. What I found to be a huge tip to me personally when dyeing leather with either natural dyes or Fiebing's Leather Dyes, came from Eric Myall, who was the master of the Saddlery for many years at Colonial Williamsburg. In one of his video's, he dunked a piece of leather in water for maybe 5 - 10 seconds until it was soaked through. Then he pulled it out, gave it a few quick shakes and laid it on his work table. (If there is still water pooling on the surface, then pat it dry with an old towel or paper towels.) The water soaked leather does two things, first is it helps resist too much dye being absorbed into some areas of the leather and that means you can do a much more even dye job. Second, it gives you an idea of how the dye will look after it dries and after you use the Dubbin/Dubbing. That can help you find and go back over areas that don't have enough dye. OK to be authentic to 18th century dyeing practice, you only dye the smooth side, not the sides of the leather and certainly not the bottom, the latter would inhibit adding oil/preservatives from time to time. The oil you add to the rough side was also added to the sides of the leather pieces and slightly colored them. OK, now that "bugs" me personally, so I admit I do dye the sides of the leather, but certainly not the bottom/rough side. BTW, Eric also mentions dunking leather in water before applying the oil/conditioner to the rough side of the leather, which helps ensure you don't use TOO MUCH oil there. I got this tip from the owner of a Tandy retail store in the late 70's, if you are going to use Fiebing's black dye on the leather and you want the best black color possible. He said to first dye it dark brown or better still, blue, before dyeing it black. Now I sat on that info for a few years until I showed my Mom an 18th century period leather wallet I had made. She admired it for a few minutes, then said, "When you make mine, I want the outside to be exactly like that, but I want one of those plastic things to hold my driver's license, credit cards or photos inside and a little more room to hold the money bills. Oh, the color will be Royal Blue." I smiled and looked at my Dad who added, "Well, look what you got yourself into now." Then he chuckled. I replied, "I'm not sure they have blue leather dye." To which Mom responded, "I'm sure you will figure it out." I was VERY happy to find out Fiebing's made a Royal Blue dye and that's what I used on Mom's "outside 18th century wallet/inside 20th century wallet." She absolutely loved the darn thing and used it for the rest of her life. Well, I was trying to figure out what I was going to do with the rest of the bottle of Royal Blue dye, until I remembered the advice on dying leather brown or blue before using black dye. Since I now had blue dye, I figured I would give it and brown dye a try on some scrap leather. Well, I couldn't see any difference when I dyed the brown or blue dye first, when I was inside. However, when I took the pieces outside in the sun, I could really see a big difference between just using black dye alone vs the brown or blue dye first. So, from that time on, I've used the Royal Blue dye first before the Black, though I make sure the Blue doesn't go over the side edges. I have NO idea if you can do the same thing with natural walnut dye and then Vinegaroon over the top, but if you have both and ever try it on a scrap piece of leather, let me know if it worked or not. Honestly, I can't imagine an Amish harness shop owner who would not know whether or not his leather was vegetable tanned or not. ALSO, while you are there, you can ask if they have Dubbin or Dubbing, which is the period correct Leather dressing for the SMOOTH side of leather goods (not a good idea to put it on the rough side of leather because it will inhibit the oil you must use occasionally on the rough side) . They might have their own homemade kind or maybe still stock the KIWI brand Dubbing. Dubbin is made from natural oil, tallow or lard or goose grease and beeswax, that's all. If they don't have it, you can make your own. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl_MM2DXY4gIf you want the period correct leather dressing for Vinegaroon or other black dyed leather, then you need Black Ball, again for the smooth side of the leather only. tccunha.ca/products/18th-century-black-ballGus
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 28, 2022 7:10:55 GMT -7
Great info, Gus. Thanks for taking the time and especially the charming personal story about Mom’s wallet.
“Honestly, I can't imagine an Amish harness shop owner who would not know whether or not his leather was vegetable tanned or not.”
Do remember that I live in the land of the Polyester Sect. A lot of the traditional trades are going by the wayside. The church in this valley even allows the use of tractors, so we no longer see the splendid teams of Belgians working the fields. Next valley over though, and you’re back to 18th century Plain living.
He’ll likely know though. Next time I have a ride out to the shop we’ll have a chat. (Still not released to drive 😑)
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Post by artificer on Jun 28, 2022 8:53:27 GMT -7
Great info, Gus. Thanks for taking the time and especially the charming personal story about Mom’s wallet. “Honestly, I can't imagine an Amish harness shop owner who would not know whether or not his leather was vegetable tanned or not.” Do remember that I live in the land of the Polyester Sect. A lot of the traditional trades are going by the wayside. The church in this valley even allows the use of tractors, so we no longer see the splendid teams of Belgians working the fields. Next valley over though, and you’re back to 18th century Plain living. He’ll likely know though. Next time I have a ride out to the shop we’ll have a chat. (Still not released to drive 😑) Just got another good laugh about your emboldened sentence above. That really cracks me up as I'm used to the traditional Amish Sects/People I've known in Iowa, Kentucky, Indiana, and Pennsylvania. I have GOT to remember to tell my Sister, our family historian/genealogist, about that. You are most welcome. Gus
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