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Post by hawkeyes on Aug 31, 2022 6:29:36 GMT -7
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Post by brokennock on Aug 31, 2022 11:25:10 GMT -7
Looking like that should turn out fantastic. Off to a great start.
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Post by artificer on Aug 31, 2022 21:46:22 GMT -7
Hawkeyes,
Some questions, if I may?
Did you have to file or scrape out interior "ribs" of horn before fitting the base plug?
How much of an angle did you have to file on the sides of the base plug to get either a friction fit or in preparation for heating the horn to force fit the base plug?
Will you be boiling the rear of the horn in water, or heated in oil or in a stove before force fitting the base plug?
Gus
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Post by hawkeyes on Sept 1, 2022 7:30:31 GMT -7
Hawkeyes, Some questions, if I may? Did you have to file or scrape out interior "ribs" of horn before fitting the base plug? How much of an angle did you have to file on the sides of the base plug to get either a friction fit or in preparation for heating the horn to force fit the base plug? Will you be boiling the rear of the horn in water, or heated in oil or in a stove before force fitting the base plug? Gus The ribs that run the interior of the horn can pose a problem. If the need would arise to remove them absolutely, quick work with a file and back on course. So the plug is that of an oval, cut and filed by eye and fit by the eye. The amount of taper isn't exact, no wizardry formulas are required for an exact angle throughout. What I've done is eye the angle that is set with file and rasp, chamfer the back edge of the plug and place a crown on the rear that is exposed. After repeated fitting (inlet black or soot can be used) and I'm happy I'll heat with oil or dry heat. My choice on the heating method and for the sake of first success I'll use oil, 340 degrees. I haven't heated and pressed the plug as of yet but it's amazing to see how plastic horn becomes under heat. Once that's completed for a perfect fit the plug will be removed, oil cleaned from the inside and reinstalled permanently. Yesterday evening we went over spout shapes and I settled on an octagonal spout end. The gentleman wants is initials carved in the plug which I'll do from actual period font from George Bickham's penmanship made easy pamphlet. I also plan to add some tasteful carving on the horn as an extra. The amount of information and details I'm picking up from my mentor is amazing, just thrilled to death. I've found a passion that will last a lifetime, very fulfilling work! |
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Post by Black Hand on Sept 1, 2022 8:20:35 GMT -7
Use your oven to achieve the temperature. Avoids the need to heat oil, cooking your horn or causing a fire. A heat gun could also be used.
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Post by hawkeyes on Sept 1, 2022 8:59:50 GMT -7
Use your oven to achieve the temperature. Avoids the need to heat oil, cooking your horn or causing a fire. A heat gun could also be used. The issue with the oven is we want to concentrate the heat source in just that area, not heat the entire horn. Can be done but I'm one who prefers oil, IMO no substitute. I've got a dedicated setup just for this step. My mentor learned from his mentor who is a highly regarded horner, they say 340, 340 it is! |
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Post by artificer on Sept 2, 2022 1:43:42 GMT -7
The ribs that run the interior of the horn can pose a problem. If the need would arise to remove them absolutely, quick work with a file and back on course. So the plug is that of an oval, cut and filed by eye and fit by the eye. The amount of taper isn't exact, no wizardry formulas are required for an exact angle throughout. What I've done is eye the angle that is set with file and rasp, chamfer the back edge of the plug and place a crown on the rear that is exposed. After repeated fitting (inlet black or soot can be used) and I'm happy I'll heat with oil or dry heat. My choice on the heating method and for the sake of first success I'll use oil, 340 degrees. I haven't heated and pressed the plug as of yet but it's amazing to see how plastic horn becomes under heat. Once that's completed for a perfect fit the plug will be removed, oil cleaned from the inside and reinstalled permanently. Yesterday evening we went over spout shapes and I settled on an octagonal spout end. The gentleman wants is initials carved in the plug which I'll do from actual period font from George Bickham's penmanship made easy pamphlet. I also plan to add some tasteful carving on the horn as an extra. The amount of information and details I'm picking up from my mentor is amazing, just thrilled to death. I've found a passion that will last a lifetime, very fulfilling work! For background, let me say I've only ever made three horns. The first with some help from my Grandpa in Jan 1972 and the last two completed horns on my own with some tips from Muzzle Blasts over the years. I have a fourth horn that I've done most of the major work on, but still have to fit a base plug. It is similar to the style of this current horn you are working, though I chose not to go with the lip of horn that extends beyond the base plug. As to getting rid of interior ribs, I have used files, but found an old file I heat bent to 90 degrees and ground/sharpened the end to a large radius curve was the best thing to remove the interior ribs by "pull scraping" on the ribs, at least for me. I've only ever used water boiling on horns to fit base plugs in the past, but have read with interest on using oil. Thanks for the tip about heating to 340 degrees. May I ask how long you keep them in the hot oil for them to "plasticize?" Thank you. Gus |
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Post by hawkeyes on Sept 2, 2022 4:47:41 GMT -7
The ribs that run the interior of the horn can pose a problem. If the need would arise to remove them absolutely, quick work with a file and back on course. So the plug is that of an oval, cut and filed by eye and fit by the eye. The amount of taper isn't exact, no wizardry formulas are required for an exact angle throughout. What I've done is eye the angle that is set with file and rasp, chamfer the back edge of the plug and place a crown on the rear that is exposed. After repeated fitting (inlet black or soot can be used) and I'm happy I'll heat with oil or dry heat. My choice on the heating method and for the sake of first success I'll use oil, 340 degrees. I haven't heated and pressed the plug as of yet but it's amazing to see how plastic horn becomes under heat. Once that's completed for a perfect fit the plug will be removed, oil cleaned from the inside and reinstalled permanently. Yesterday evening we went over spout shapes and I settled on an octagonal spout end. The gentleman wants is initials carved in the plug which I'll do from actual period font from George Bickham's penmanship made easy pamphlet. I also plan to add some tasteful carving on the horn as an extra. The amount of information and details I'm picking up from my mentor is amazing, just thrilled to death. I've found a passion that will last a lifetime, very fulfilling work! For background, let me say I've only ever made three horns. The first with some help from my Grandpa in Jan 1972 and the last two completed horns on my own with some tips from Muzzle Blasts over the years. I have a fourth horn that I've done most of the major work on, but still have to fit a base plug. It is similar to the style of this current horn you are working, though I chose not to go with the lip of horn that extends beyond the base plug. As to getting rid of interior ribs, I have used files, but found an old file I heat bent to 90 degrees and ground/sharpened the end to a large radius curve was the best thing to remove the interior ribs by "pull scraping" on the ribs, at least for me. I've only ever used water boiling on horns to fit base plugs in the past, but have read with interest on using oil. Thanks for the tip about heating to 340 degrees. May I ask how long you keep them in the hot oil for them to "plasticize?" Thank you. Gus I tell ya Gus, out of all the period trades there's something special about horn work for me. When you really get engaged in the trade there's SO much to learn, more than what one would think. Many small detailed nuances, tricks and techniques to achieve a desired result or look. The period lathes in use were just fascinating in their own right. I personally never have given horn work much thought. I knew enough to be dangerous and make a functional horn. However... That miniscule knowledge wasn't even scratching the surface. Like the rifle the horn is of necessity and a highly personalized piece. I have vowed to learn all I'm able to learn and produce top quality hornwork. Having a wonderful and skilled mentor who already has seen my abilities is humbling. To the heat application! At 340 it doesn't take but a minute. You'll notice the smell very quickly! The first time I watched my mentor heat a horn end he took it out of the oil bath and poked it with a piece of dowl, when it deformed in went the plug. In short use good judgment. Each horn will react differently given varying thicknesses. |
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Post by artificer on Sept 3, 2022 3:52:03 GMT -7
I understand completely. I have been extremely fortunate to have many mentors in gun and sword collecting, as well as gunsmithing on black powder guns of many types.
Thanks for the info and really looking forward to your future posts in this thread.
Gus
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Post by hawkeyes on Sept 5, 2022 4:31:48 GMT -7
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Post by brokennock on Sept 5, 2022 6:21:26 GMT -7
Beautiful work. Can't decide which one I am liking more. The lines and detail of the customer's horn are so clean and elegant. I really like the color and size of the darker horn. What are the smaller horns dimensions?
You are doing excellent work already. I can't wait to see how your talent and skills progress over time when the master pushes and tests the limits of your skill and artistry.
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Post by hawkeyes on Sept 5, 2022 16:51:00 GMT -7
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Post by brokennock on Sept 5, 2022 16:57:16 GMT -7
Very nice.
No increased concern for cracking at the lobe where there are those right angles coming off the horn into the lobe? I would have expected them to have a little more radious.
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Post by hawkeyes on Sept 5, 2022 17:35:50 GMT -7
Very nice. No increased concern for cracking at the lobe where there are those right angles coming off the horn into the lobe? I would have expected them to have a little more radious. Not at all, there is an ever so slight chamfer there for that reason. |
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Post by Black Hand on Sept 6, 2022 8:30:20 GMT -7
Nicely done!
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