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Post by lenapej on Apr 8, 2023 13:05:05 GMT -7
Interesting stuff! A check shirt of different patterns! “Brown” was often used to describe unbleached or natural linen, so I always wonder if the period descriptions that mention brown shirts are referencing brown-dyed or unbleached fabric. For as common as indigo dying was, the lack of blue shirts is most surprising. I was not aware of that, maybe they are not brown as we think of such after all. So maybe some of the descriptions of "brown cloth coats" are just unbleached? Those two references are the only ones I've seen of colored shirts.
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on Apr 8, 2023 18:00:51 GMT -7
I’ve been picking up on the language of the material culture in the times. Things like “cloth” means plain weave linen. “Yarn” stockings are knit wool, “thread” stockings are linen. There’s enough doubt about “brown” linen that I’m second guessing my choice of dyed brown linen small clothes. Going through images casually, I haven’t come across brown clothing that was obviously linen and not wool.
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Post by lenapej on Apr 8, 2023 19:43:43 GMT -7
Thanks for sharing that, I have often wondered about some of those terms, so if "cloth" is a plain weave linen, then possibly "a brown, cloth, (item)" could mean a brown dyed linen?
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Post by brokennock on Apr 9, 2023 4:25:22 GMT -7
.....There’s enough doubt about “brown” linen that I’m second guessing my choice of dyed brown linen small clothes. Going through images casually, I haven’t come across brown clothing that was obviously linen and not wool. Some questions and thoughts on this. Do we see other colors of dyed linen? (I seem to recall that we do) Do we see images of dyed brown clothing, even of unknown material? (Again, I seem to recall that we do) Do we see examples of brown dyed wool? Yup. As much as I dislike reaching conclusions through a process of what seems logical or reasonable, basing things on what we surmise to be likely,,,,, if all of the above is true, it seems more unreasonable to me that there were no dyed brown linen garments. Dyes of the time not being as stable as modern synthetic dyes. Is it possible that a brown coat or waistcoat seen in 1767 was a different color in 1765? Brown certainly seems a good color for a gentleman doing woodsy things but still caring about his dress, but not wanting to wear black for whatever reason. Brown looks nice, blends with the environment,,, and hides dirt on the clothing very well (often better than black). Again, this is just surmised, but, we see men's clothing of the time in some pretty bright and what would now be seen as effeminate colors, I have a hard time thinking that there would be very little in between black/white/grey and those brighter colors. Brown, and various shades of it, seems a very likely color within that spectrum. Also,,,, my brain is screaming at me that we have seen an example of a brown coat or breeches before.... But I can't remember where. So, I really don't think there is that much doubt that there was brown dyed linen clothing, in fact I think the opposite. And I certainly don't think there is enough doubt to be second guessing your choice.
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Post by lenapej on Apr 9, 2023 6:51:08 GMT -7
Some good points Nock, I have seen quite a few images and descriptions of brown garments, enough to convince me that the color brown was fairly common, but as Ryan said it's hard to tell what the fabric is made of, I once did a study of colors for coats from 1750-63 in the PA, NJ, OH area, using runaway adds and descriptions, and brown was the most mentioned color, unfortunately not many cloth descriptions, some of the terms used were, "brownish coat" "old brown coat" "dark brown coat" "brown cloth coat" "brown & yellow silk and worsted coat" and just "brown coat" Wool may have been mentioned, I will say if I seen a brown linen coat mentioned I failed to write it down, I was just on the thread where Ryan was remodeling his coat and shown the pic of the original coat inside out and I believe he said it was linen, it looked like a dark tan or light brown to me so maybe there is some evidence?
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Post by artificer on Apr 10, 2023 10:39:13 GMT -7
I don't have historic documentation handy, but I seem to remember "block printed" designs on I think cotton material or silk from India, coming to at least 18th century Britain? Not sure if it made it to North America?
Gus
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Post by Black Hand on Apr 10, 2023 19:01:08 GMT -7
I don't have historic documentation handy, but I seem to remember "block printed" designs on I think cotton material or silk from India, coming to at least 18th century Britain? Not sure if it made it to North America? Gus There was some printed cotton from India - most of the prints I've seen were botanical/floral in design with some others patterned. Haven't seen a printed check, though it's not out of the realm of possibility.
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Post by artificer on Apr 10, 2023 20:17:12 GMT -7
I think the Banyon worn by Cornwallis in the movie "The Patriot" was made of such material?
Gus
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 12, 2023 19:02:40 GMT -7
If you look long enough…
05/06/1751 Run away..., an Irish Convict Servant Ma..., He carried with him two blue linen Shirts, a strip'd Holland Shirt, a Pair of Brown Cloth Breeches, brown Linen Trowsers, a Pair of Shoes, speckled Virginia Yarn Stockings, a light colour'd Duroy. Frock with a small Cape to the back, a Hat, a Cap, and a black Wig.
This is from the Virginia Gazette, and there are a number of important textile references here. Germane to this thread…
Blue Linen Shirts
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