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Post by spence on Oct 1, 2019 7:48:04 GMT -7
For me, the question of first aid being carried illustrates a broader one, that of how each of us approaches our re-enacting. It’s one to which I’ve given considerable thought over the years, but have always had difficulty putting into words. Are we doing experimental archaeology or show and tell? Trying to experience what they did, find out how their life really worked, or trying to create a totally authentic kit, a certain look for the public?
If we decide to carry first aid, is it just part of that look, in which case the supplies and packaging should be HC/PC, but not necessarily effective? Or, is it real first aid, carried in case of real need in the modern sense? In that case, period supplies and packaging don’t seem appropriate, and might be better reserved for static display at an event, etc.
Obviously, anything needed to keep us safe in the modern world while we are indulging ourselves in the hobby, wandering around in the 18th century, is appropriate, and we’d be dumb not to carry it. I never will drink ground water on my little treks, but if I did I’d certainly protect myself with the best modern technology available. I never go anywhere without my modern medicines in my pocket, including the 18th century. A small leather pouch tied to my sash keeps them and my flip phone handy but invisible. For anything needed beyond that it’s my personal choice to follow James Smith’s example and work it out the best I can when the need arises. Since every man’s situation is different, each is free to make his own choice about what’s best for him.
Spence
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Post by hawkeyes on Oct 1, 2019 7:54:27 GMT -7
For me, the question of first aid being carried illustrates a broader one, that of how each of us approaches our re-enacting. It’s one to which I’ve given considerable thought over the years, but have always had difficulty putting into words. Are we doing experimental archaeology or show and tell? Trying to experience what they did, find out how their life really worked, or trying to create a totally authentic kit, a certain look for the public? If we decide to carry first aid, is it just part of that look, in which case the supplies and packaging should be HC/PC, but not necessarily effective? Or, is it real first aid, carried in case of real need in the modern sense? In that case, period supplies and packaging don’t seem appropriate, and might be better reserved for static display at an event, etc. Obviously, anything needed to keep us safe in the modern world while we are indulging ourselves in the hobby, wandering around in the 18th century, is appropriate, and we’d be dumb not to carry it. I never will drink ground water on my little treks, but if I did I’d certainly protect myself with the best modern technology available. I never go anywhere without my modern medicines in my pocket, including the 18th century. A small leather pouch tied to my sash keeps them and my flip phone handy but invisible. For anything needed beyond that it’s my personal choice to follow James Smith’s example and work it out the best I can when the need arises. Since every man’s situation is different, each is free to make his own choice about what’s best for him. Spence Very well spoken and good words to follow without a doubt.
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Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990
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Post by Keith on Oct 1, 2019 13:20:45 GMT -7
My reading spectacles so I can actually see what I am doing!.......................I am no stranger to bush surgery, & have been operated on without the use of any anesthetic. I rolled up my handkerchief to use as a gag to bite down on. Open wounds that would normally require stitches, I have simply used a bandage to close the wound, & they have healed just fine. Keith. This would be us watching.... This would be Keith.... (Inspiration from "Master and Commander".) Very good mate, & I appreciate the effort you put into this , but in reality you need to be very careful if you try to stitch yourself or someone else. The wound must be hyper clean, suturing in contamination could be worse than not doing it at all . Like Black Hand said: Plug the hole & get help if possible. Keith.
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Post by Black Hand on Oct 1, 2019 13:50:57 GMT -7
In this day of super-glue and Steri-strips, sutures are almost passé. The wound must be clean, as suturing junk in there just makes for more problems and making a wound anaerobic only encourages any tetanus spores into germinating or could result in gangrene.
At most, I might consider using sutures to keep an abdomen closed if the intestines might come out during transport. Other than that, do what you can to address the issues that might kill them in 3-5 minutes and go to a professional. Also, exceeding your training and performing a procedure of which you might have intimate knowledge but no actual certification will get you in legal hot water, especially if complications arise.
MT Good Samaritan Law: 27-1-714. Limits on liability for emergency care rendered at scene of accident or emergency. Any person licensed as a physician and surgeon under the laws of the state of Montana, any volunteer firefighter or officer of any nonprofit volunteer fire company, or any other person who in good faith renders emergency care or assistance without compensation except as provided in subsection (2) at the scene of an emergency or accident is not liable for any civil damages for acts or omissions other than damages occasioned by gross negligence or by willful or wanton acts or omissions by such person in rendering such emergency care or assistance.
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Post by hawkeyes on Oct 1, 2019 13:59:58 GMT -7
In this day of super-glue and Steri-strips, sutures are almost passé. The wound must be clean, as suturing junk in there just makes for more problems and making a wound anaerobic only encourages any tetanus spores into germinating or could result in gangrene. At most, I might consider using sutures to keep an abdomen closed if the intestines might come out during transport. Other than that, do what you can to address the issues that might kill them in 3-5 minutes and go to a professional. Also, exceeding your training and performing a procedure of which you might have intimate knowledge but no actual certification will get you in legal hot water, especially if complications arise. Wouldn't stitch a soul in today's society unless every other option would be exhausted in vane. As you stated, legal hot water without a doubt in a sue all world. Same for starting a emergency IV, unless again under certain conditions that would call for it, however the likes of which the average person will not encounter.
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Post by Black Hand on Oct 1, 2019 14:05:28 GMT -7
If it was a member of my family, I would not hesitate a moment. For all others, it becomes a different story...
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Post by hawkeyes on Oct 1, 2019 14:15:59 GMT -7
If it was a member of my family, I would not hesitate a moment. For all others, it becomes a different story... This is very true. However doctor google gives degrees and training in all areas of the medical field, thus everyone should be equipped and ready! Enough of my off topic madness, I apologize! I did come across a very interesting article on 18th century ships medicine. I'll find that and post the link.
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Post by hawkeyes on Oct 2, 2019 17:56:19 GMT -7
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Post by artificer on Oct 2, 2019 21:47:41 GMT -7
I was wondering if in the 18th century they knew honey was an excellent burn ointment and could also be used over other wounds? This was known in ancient Egypt, but am not sure if the knowledge was lost by the 18th century?
Gus
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Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990
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Post by Keith on Oct 3, 2019 1:09:36 GMT -7
I was wondering if in the 18th century they knew honey was an excellent burn ointment and could also be used over other wounds? This was known in ancient Egypt, but am not sure if the knowledge was lost by the 18th century? Gus 18th Century Medicinal Uses for Honey. ‘A poultis for a Swelling by My Aunt Dorothy Pates’, for example, used honey as a binding agent.[5] Another recipe, said to be ‘approved by the best doctars [sic]’ used a clove of garlic saturated in fine English honey and put in the ear for eight days to cure pain and restore hearing.[6] [5] Abigail Smith and others, ‘Collection of medical and cookery receipts’ (c. 1700). Wellcome Library, London, MS 4631, f. 7r. [6] Ibid., f. 23 v recipes.hypotheses.org/tag/honey“Cut the white heels from some red rose buds, and lay them to dry in a place where there is a draught of air; when they are dried, put half a pound of them into a stone jar, and pour on them three pints of boiling water; stir them well, and let them stand twelve hours; then press off the liquor (liquid) and when it has settled, add to it five pounds of honey; boil it well, and when it is of the consistence of thick syrup, put it by for use. It is good against mouth sores, and on many other occasions.” ‘Honey of Roses’ and The Family Herbal by Sir John Hill 1759.
The leaves being applied with honey to running sores or ulcers, do cleanse them. SYRUPS MADE WITH VINEGAR AND HONEY. The Project Gutenberg EBook of The Complete Herbal, by Nicholas Culpeper
17th Century. www.survivorlibrary.com/library/culpepers_complete_herbal_1880.pdfMedical Use of Honey in the 17th & 18th centuries. Documentation. woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/2019/10/medical-use-of-honey-in-17th-18th.htmlKeith.
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Post by Black Hand on Oct 3, 2019 5:26:03 GMT -7
I was wondering if in the 18th century they knew honey was an excellent burn ointment and could also be used over other wounds? This was known in ancient Egypt, but am not sure if the knowledge was lost by the 18th century? Gus Availability (and cost) might be more of an issue, at least for the 18th Century colonies in America.
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Post by artificer on Oct 3, 2019 7:08:52 GMT -7
Keith,
Thank you for the excellent sources of using honey in period medicines.
The reason I asked was because Scientific American or another similar channel did a program on ancient Egyptian medicine a couple/few years ago. They mentioned the ancient texts/writings mentioned using honey as burn ointment and they decided to test it.
I have NO idea how they talked the volunteer into it, but they showed a person who allowed them to burn his forearms with what looked like a propane torch on his forearms, to similar burn results. It looked like they did it in at least a medical clinic and was under the supervision of doctors. One arm they laid honey on the burn and wrapped it with ancient style linen wrappings. They used the most modern burn ointment and sterile dressings on the other arm, then checked the wounds every day. The volunteer said the honey dressed wound itched slightly more as it healed than modern burn ointment, but not too much more. Much to my surprise and I think theirs, the honeyed wound healed almost as fast as the wound with the most modern burn ointment. .
Gus
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Post by artificer on Oct 3, 2019 7:36:30 GMT -7
On the other hand, my 19th century medical supplies used for display: Blackhand, Before I forget, good point on using honey in the colonies depended on availability and cost. If I did it correctly and copied just the photo above of your 19th century medical kit, I wanted to ask you about the Clear Glass Funnel Shaped measure with the integral glass base, that is just to the right and slightly above the wood tray with the paper banded sticks in it. I purchased what I believe to be an original of one very much like that, about 15 years ago, when I found it in a display of old kitchen paraphernalia in an antique shop. They had marked it as a "kitchen measuring cup," but I knew it wasn't that. Mine is hand blown as it has what remains of the broken/sanded/polished pontil mark on the bottom, the wavy lines showing hand blowing and the marks and numbers hand etched on the side. I looked it up around that time and the script/font was correct for the 18th century, though I think it may be as late as the early 19th century because the glass is clear? Was there a particular name for this kind of glass measure? I thought it might be an Apothecarist's Measure, but was not sure about it. Gus
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Post by Black Hand on Oct 3, 2019 8:06:10 GMT -7
Otzi had a medical kit of sorts, so there is a historical precedent....
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Post by Black Hand on Oct 3, 2019 8:07:04 GMT -7
On the other hand, my 19th century medical supplies used for display: Blackhand, Before I forget, good point on using honey in the colonies depended on availability and cost. If I did it correctly and copied just the photo above of your 19th century medical kit, I wanted to ask you about the Clear Glass Funnel Shaped measure with the integral glass base, that is just to the right and slightly above the wood tray with the paper banded sticks in it. I purchased what I believe to be an original of one very much like that, about 15 years ago, when I found it in a display of old kitchen paraphernalia in an antique shop. They had marked it as a "kitchen measuring cup," but I knew it wasn't that. Mine is hand blown as it has what remains of the broken/sanded/polished pontil mark on the bottom, the wavy lines showing hand blowing and the marks and numbers hand etched on the side. I looked it up around that time and the script/font was correct for the 18th century, though I think it may be as late as the early 19th century because the glass is clear? Was there a particular name for this kind of glass measure? I thought it might be an Apothecarist's Measure, but was not sure about it. Gus Gus, It is a graduated cylinder.
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