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Post by brokennock on Oct 30, 2019 15:03:00 GMT -7
Does anyone have any good images of mid to late 18th century pint mugs? Such as those that ale, cider, or flip, would have been served in at one's local tavern. I hear tell of some of them having a whistle of sorts worked into the design and manufacture to be used to summon the barkeep for another round. Would like some pics and documentation of this of it is true, and common. (Personally if I were the tavern owner or bar keeper it think I would be chipping these out as the sound would aggravate me before too long)
Thanks,
Dave
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Post by spence on Oct 30, 2019 16:43:58 GMT -7
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Post by Black Hand on Oct 30, 2019 18:45:12 GMT -7
Does anyone have any good images of mid to late 18th century pint mugs? Such as those that ale, cider, or flip, would have been served in at one's local tavern. I hear tell of some of them having a whistle of sorts worked into the design and manufacture to be used to summon the barkeep for another round. Would like some pics and documentation of this of it is true, and common. (Personally if I were the tavern owner or bar keeper it think I would be chipping these out as the sound would aggravate me before too long) Thanks, Dave There would be many broken mugs if I owned the tavern and maybe a few corresponding dents in the more stubborn & annoying customers that insisted on overusing the whistle. Then again, with as little as I like crowds, I don't think I could ever work in a tavern - I know for certain I'm not pretty enough to make good tips... |
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Post by spence on Oct 30, 2019 19:37:01 GMT -7
Dave, you are in good company with your interest in mugs. Old Ben Franklin was interested in them, too.
The Pennsylvania Gazette
July 26, 1733
A MEDITATION On a Quart Mugg.
WRETCHED, miserable, and unhappy Mug! I pity thy luckless Lot, I commiserate thy Misfortunes, thy Grief fills me with Compassion, and because of thee are Tears made frequently to burst from my Eyes. How often have I seen him compell'd to hold up his Handle at the Bar, for no other Crime than that of being empty; then snatch'd away by a surly Officer, and plung'd suddenly into a Tub of cold Water: Sad Spectacle, and Emblem of human Penury, oppress'd by arbitrary Power! How often is he hurry'd down into a dismal Vault, sent up fully laden in a cold Sweat, and by a rude Hand thrust into the Fire! How often have I seen it obliged to undergo the Indignities of a dirty Wench; to have melting Candles dropt on its naked Sides, and sometimes in its Mouth, to risque being broken into a thousand Pieces, for Actions which itself was not guilty of! How often is he forced into the Company of boisterous Sots, who lay all their Nonsence, Noise, profane Swearing, Cursing, and Quarreling, on the harmless Mug, which speaks not a Word! They overset him, maim him, and sometimes turn him to Arms offensive or defensive, as they please; when of himself he would not be of either Party, but would as willingly stand still. Alas! what Power, or Place, is provided, where this poor Mug, this unpitied Slave, can have Redress of his Wrongs and Sufferings? Or where shall he have a Word of Praise bestow'd on him for his Well-doings, and faithful Services? If he prove of a large size, his Owner curses him, and says he will devour more than he'll earn: If his Size be small, those whom his Master appoints him to serve will curse him as much, and perhaps threaten him with the Inquisition of the Standard. Poor Mug, unfortunate is thy Condition! Of thy self thou wouldst do no Harm, but much Harm is done with thee! Thou art accused of many Mischiefs; thou art said to administer Drunkenness, Poison, and broken Heads: But none praise these for the good Things thou yieldest! Shouldest thou produce double Beer, nappy Ale, stallcop Cyder, or Cyder mull'd, fine Punch, or cordial Tiff; yet for all these shouldst thou not be prais'd, will be said to be foreign to thee! And yet, so unhappy is thy Destiny, thou must bear all their Faults and Abominations! Hast thou been industriously serving thy Employers with Tiff or Punch, and instantly they dispatch thee for Cyder, then must thou be abused for smelling of Rum. Hast thou been steaming their Noses gratefully, with mull'd Cyder or butter'd Ale, and then offerest to refresh their Palates with the best of Beer, they will curse thee of thy Greasiness. And how, alas! can thy Service be rendered more tolerable to thee? If thou submitted thy self to a Scouring in the Kitchen, what must thou undergo from sharp Sand, hot Ashes, and a coarse Dishclout; besides the Danger of having thy Lips rudely torn, thy Countenance disfigured, thy Arms dismantled, and thy whole Frame shatter'd, with violent Concussions in an Iron Pot or Brass Kettle! And yet, O Mug! if these Dangers thou escapest, with little Injury, thou must at last untimely fall, be broken to Pieces, and cast away, never more to be recollected and form'd into a Quart Mug. Whether by the Fire, or in a Battle, or choak'd with a Dischclout, or by a Stroke against a Stone, thy Dissolution happens; 'tis all alike to thy avaritious Owner; he grieves not for thee, but for the Shilling with which he purchased thee! If thy Bottom-Part should chance to survive, it may be preserv'd to hold Bits of Candles, or Blacking for Shoes, or Salve for kibed Heels; but all thy other Members will be for ever buried in some miry Hole; or less carefully disposed of, so that little Children, who have not yet arrived to Acts of Cruelty, may gather them up to furnish out their Baby-Houses: Or, being cast upon the Dunghill, they will therewith be carted into Meadow Grounds; where, being spread abroad and discovered, they must be thrown to the Heap of Stones, Bones, and Rubbish; or being left until the Mower finds them with his Scythe, they will with bitter Curses be tossed over the Hedge; and to serve for unlucky Boys to throw at Birds and Dogs; until by Length of Time and numerous Casualties, they shall be press'd into their Mother Earth, and be converted to their original Principles.
Spence
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Post by brokennock on Oct 30, 2019 20:01:44 GMT -7
I'd seen that one. It is the reason I came here rather than continuing with the likes of google. We need a new search engine, we shall call it Spence2.0 |
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Post by brokennock on Oct 30, 2019 20:03:50 GMT -7
Dave, you are in good company with your interest in mugs. Old Ben Franklin was interested in them, too. The Pennsylvania Gazette July 26, 1733 A MEDITATION On a Quart Mugg. WRETCHED, miserable, and unhappy Mug! I pity thy luckless Lot, I commiserate thy Misfortunes, thy Grief fills me with Compassion, and because of thee are Tears made frequently to burst from my Eyes. How often have I seen him compell'd to hold up his Handle at the Bar, for no other Crime than that of being empty; then snatch'd away by a surly Officer, and plung'd suddenly into a Tub of cold Water: Sad Spectacle, and Emblem of human Penury, oppress'd by arbitrary Power! How often is he hurry'd down into a dismal Vault, sent up fully laden in a cold Sweat, and by a rude Hand thrust into the Fire! How often have I seen it obliged to undergo the Indignities of a dirty Wench; to have melting Candles dropt on its naked Sides, and sometimes in its Mouth, to risque being broken into a thousand Pieces, for Actions which itself was not guilty of! How often is he forced into the Company of boisterous Sots, who lay all their Nonsence, Noise, profane Swearing, Cursing, and Quarreling, on the harmless Mug, which speaks not a Word! They overset him, maim him, and sometimes turn him to Arms offensive or defensive, as they please; when of himself he would not be of either Party, but would as willingly stand still. Alas! what Power, or Place, is provided, where this poor Mug, this unpitied Slave, can have Redress of his Wrongs and Sufferings? Or where shall he have a Word of Praise bestow'd on him for his Well-doings, and faithful Services? If he prove of a large size, his Owner curses him, and says he will devour more than he'll earn: If his Size be small, those whom his Master appoints him to serve will curse him as much, and perhaps threaten him with the Inquisition of the Standard. Poor Mug, unfortunate is thy Condition! Of thy self thou wouldst do no Harm, but much Harm is done with thee! Thou art accused of many Mischiefs; thou art said to administer Drunkenness, Poison, and broken Heads: But none praise these for the good Things thou yieldest! Shouldest thou produce double Beer, nappy Ale, stallcop Cyder, or Cyder mull'd, fine Punch, or cordial Tiff; yet for all these shouldst thou not be prais'd, will be said to be foreign to thee! And yet, so unhappy is thy Destiny, thou must bear all their Faults and Abominations! Hast thou been industriously serving thy Employers with Tiff or Punch, and instantly they dispatch thee for Cyder, then must thou be abused for smelling of Rum. Hast thou been steaming their Noses gratefully, with mull'd Cyder or butter'd Ale, and then offerest to refresh their Palates with the best of Beer, they will curse thee of thy Greasiness. And how, alas! can thy Service be rendered more tolerable to thee? If thou submitted thy self to a Scouring in the Kitchen, what must thou undergo from sharp Sand, hot Ashes, and a coarse Dishclout; besides the Danger of having thy Lips rudely torn, thy Countenance disfigured, thy Arms dismantled, and thy whole Frame shatter'd, with violent Concussions in an Iron Pot or Brass Kettle! And yet, O Mug! if these Dangers thou escapest, with little Injury, thou must at last untimely fall, be broken to Pieces, and cast away, never more to be recollected and form'd into a Quart Mug. Whether by the Fire, or in a Battle, or choak'd with a Dischclout, or by a Stroke against a Stone, thy Dissolution happens; 'tis all alike to thy avaritious Owner; he grieves not for thee, but for the Shilling with which he purchased thee! If thy Bottom-Part should chance to survive, it may be preserv'd to hold Bits of Candles, or Blacking for Shoes, or Salve for kibed Heels; but all thy other Members will be for ever buried in some miry Hole; or less carefully disposed of, so that little Children, who have not yet arrived to Acts of Cruelty, may gather them up to furnish out their Baby-Houses: Or, being cast upon the Dunghill, they will therewith be carted into Meadow Grounds; where, being spread abroad and discovered, they must be thrown to the Heap of Stones, Bones, and Rubbish; or being left until the Mower finds them with his Scythe, they will with bitter Curses be tossed over the Hedge; and to serve for unlucky Boys to throw at Birds and Dogs; until by Length of Time and numerous Casualties, they shall be press'd into their Mother Earth, and be converted to their original Principles. Spence Laughing my @s$ off. That is absolutely great, I truly love it. I might see about having it made into a poster or such. Thank you, it really brightened my evening. |
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Post by brokennock on Nov 3, 2019 20:27:55 GMT -7
Can anyone explain the difference between stoneware and earthenware?
What is salt glaze?
Thanks.
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Post by spence on Nov 3, 2019 21:19:21 GMT -7
The difference is in the firing temperature. Earthenware is fired at a lower temperature, is relatively softer, is slightly porous so that it must be glazed in order to be watertight. Stoneware is fired at high enough temperature that it starts to turn into glass, is not porous so it's watertight without glaze. Different clays are used for the different types of pottery.
Salt glaze is a way of putting a smooth, slick, slightly pebbly coating on pottery by simply throwing salt into the kiln when it is at high temperature.
Spence
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Post by brokennock on Nov 4, 2019 2:34:37 GMT -7
Thank you.
I guess for this klutz, stoneware would be better.
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Post by spence on Nov 4, 2019 9:16:03 GMT -7
Buy two.  Spence |
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Post by artificer on Nov 6, 2019 9:54:58 GMT -7
Does anyone have any good images of mid to late 18th century pint mugs? Such as those that ale, cider, or flip, would have been served in at one's local tavern. I hear tell of some of them having a whistle of sorts worked into the design and manufacture to be used to summon the barkeep for another round. Would like some pics and documentation of this of it is true, and common. (Personally if I were the tavern owner or bar keeper it think I would be chipping these out as the sound would aggravate me before too long) Thanks, Dave The Rising Sun Tavern in Fredericksburg, VA was established as a Tavern when it was rented to John Fraser in 1792. It was a "High Tavern" in that it was one of few Taverns where it was respectable for Wives and Ladies to stay there with their husbands/families while traveling. Even so, some things about the somewhat large Tavern Room show they did certain things to help guard against too much damage by drunk patrons. The "Groaning Board" was a large table in the Tavern Room that held meats, cooked dishes, vegetables, pies/cakes and fruits in season, in the manner we would call a buffet. Instead of ordering individual meals, customers paid "by the plate" and were allowed to pile on as much food as they could get on the plate, but any additional plates and you paid again the same price for a second plate. However, the "regular" plates in the Tavern Room were made of wood even in a High Tavern and that late in the 18th century, to keep down on damage to the plates. Of course higher status customers could eat in the dining room where food was served on china on good tables with decorum and served by the Tavern Wenches. Of course that cost more even though it was the same food. They even had an unusual apparatus in which the Tavern Wench dropped the coins the customers paid for food or drink. It had a glass front and there were slanted wood runners in it on which the coins advanced as each new coin was dropped into it until at the bottom of the third runner, the coins dropped into a locked box and hidden from view. The idea was if there was any complaint about what the customer paid, the Tavern Wench could point to the coin/s as proof. This apparatus is still on display and they demonstrate how it was used when you tour the Tavern. However, what is really unusual is the Tavern when first taken over for a Museum, still had the original "bar area" where the Innkeeper kept the different spirits and apportioned out the drinks. There was no open bar one could stand in front of or belly up to and drink at the bar. There were only two sides that were somewhat open, but had wooden bars over the long side customers could see through and had a wooden door with wooden bars on the short side with an opening the drinks came out from behind the bars to be served by the Tavern Wenches. The idea was if fights broke out or things were thrown inside the Tavern Room by drunk customers, the wooden bars protected the stored spirits. Besides the spirts; cups, mugs and glasses of different materials were also stored there for use by the Innkeeper to dispense drinks. There were nice wine glasses and pewter mugs, but those were primarily used in the Dining Room or to TRUSTED customers. There were also mugs made of wood or leather drinking jacks, that were probably used in the Tavern Room and especially when the customers got drunk, though there were also different kinds of "pottery" mugs for some drinks. If anyone comes near Fredericksburg, VA during their travels, the Rising Sun Tavern should be considered a "Must See" spot as well as some other great historic sites there. Sorry I could not find photo's of the inside of the Tavern, but here's a link that shows the outside and some information. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_Tavern_%28Fredericksburg%2C_Virginia%29Gus |
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Post by brokennock on Nov 6, 2019 11:42:25 GMT -7
Thanks Gus. The Rising Sun Tavern has been on my list of places to visit for quite some time. I couldn't make it happen on my trip southward a few weeks ago, but, maybe when I drive to S.C. and Fla. in late February or for spring turkey season in Florida.
I'd like a few period mugs to enjoy my hard cider from. And, someday I'd like to learn to make "flip" and try that. I'm thinking stoneware would be the best of the period materials still readily available for this.
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Post by artificer on Nov 6, 2019 19:50:38 GMT -7
Years ago, I used Redware (well glazed) and Stoneware mugs and they are indeed period correct, but very prone to breakage in camp either when the coffee was too hot or the adult beverages were imbibed a bit too much. I did NOT like the taste from copper mugs or from pitch lined drinking jacks. A wood mug "wooden do" for coffee and some spirits.
In the early 2,000's, I finally decided to go to fleabay and look for and buy a Wilton Armetale Lidded Mug in a period style. It looks like pewter, but is made from a different material and generally I liked it a whole lot. Now I realize that is not good enough for some folks and for them I would suggest buying pewter mugs in period styles. Have to say it is not as good to drink hot coffee and other hot liquids as Redware or Stoneware, though.
Gus
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Post by brokennock on Nov 7, 2019 7:47:59 GMT -7
Thanks. Thought about pewter, wasn't sure about the lead. Just did some reading and new pewter should be safe. How is it for keeping cold drinks cold and hot drinks from burning one's hand?
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Post by straekat on Nov 7, 2019 12:20:48 GMT -7
............ a Wilton Armetale Lidded Mug in a period style. It looks like pewter, but is made from a different material and generally I liked it a whole lot. Now I realize that is not good enough for some folks and for them I would suggest buying pewter mugs in period styles. Have to say it is not as good to drink hot coffee and other hot liquids as Redware or Stoneware, though. Gus
Wilton Armetale products are mostly alloyed aluminum.
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