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Post by spence on Nov 19, 2019 15:08:05 GMT -7
Black Hand said: My inclination would be to carry a pipe in a pouch around my neck which would also contain tobacco.
Something I've wondered about...is the pipe/tobacco pouch around the neck strictly a 19th-century fur trade/mountain man thing, or is there evidence it was done in the 18th century?
Spence
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Post by Black Hand on Nov 19, 2019 16:18:19 GMT -7
Black Hand said: My inclination would be to carry a pipe in a pouch around my neck which would also contain tobacco. Something I've wondered about...is the pipe/tobacco pouch around the neck strictly a 19th-century fur trade/mountain man thing, or is there evidence it was done in the 18th century? Spence The Gage-D'amour appears to be more of a 19th century thing (I can't give you any evidence other than my general impression), but also appears to be over-represented in the MM community today (I believe it was more of a Voyageur item). On the other hand, a simple pouch around the neck just seems like a handy place to hang a pipe - it would be easily accessible, but less likely to get broken. In other word, I don't have a good answer for you...
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Post by Black Hand on Nov 20, 2019 6:04:57 GMT -7
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Post by brokennock on Nov 20, 2019 9:29:00 GMT -7
Wow. Interesting, thank you. For all the demonization of tobacco, and it's users, these days, it does seem to be the subject of much historical research. It was a huge part of Colonial and early American trade and culture. Much like firearms are a integral part of our history, their use, ownership, and development, and now guns and their owners are vilified. I also don't think light use of straight, natural, tobacco is all that harmful, especially in light of what is in much of the food most people eat, the chemicals we use on our lawns and crops, etc. Cigarettes, vaping, artificially cased pipe tobacco, flavored cigars (and wrappers for you "blunt" tokers out there) are a different story. But I'm okay (well, more than okay) with being on the "wrong" side of political correctness.
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Post by artificer on Nov 20, 2019 14:30:36 GMT -7
You raise good points. Some of which I have alluded to in threads elsewhere about turkey hunting and chokes. The turkeys they hunted then were not the over pressured "educated" birds we hunt today. While I have called turkey literally into my lap, I've also quite often had them hang up just outside of cylinder bore muzzleloader range. They spook over seemingly minor things. Interestingly enough. My best hunting partner and I have not only shot deer while smoking, but I can picture in my mind (like it was yesterday) an even years ago when my buddy didn't get a deer because of his cigarette. It wasn't because of the smell. Our treestands were placed so that on the ground we couldn't see eachother but once in the stand we could, if we knew where to look. I watched him focus his attention and raise his bow, just short of his anchor point the string came down, the arrow clattered to the ground, and the deer ran off. He burned his hand on the cigarette he forgot to take out of his mouth. My theory is that deer are curious, and, they can get used to anything. They also learn. They know where we belong and where we don't. People say, oh hunting must be easy I see deer in my yard, or along the paved hiking/biking trail, all the time. I say, yup, try approaching one, step off the trail or into the yard, you will have their attention, then they will be gone. If a deer smells somethi6it is curious about, investigates, and nothing bad happens, I think they will ignore it or continue to investigate it in the future. If they smell something and investigate and get shot at and missed, they will avoid that spot and that smell from now on. I often use the smoke as a wind indicator, and in the early season, as mosquito and gnat repellent. Also, I don't smoke cigarettes. Gave them up over 20 years ago. Pipe or cigar, depending on weather and activity. I would be interested in you topic thread on the differences in the game, and places, we hunt between colonial times and now. I grew up hunting rabbits, squirrels, quail, pheasant, racoon, ducks and geese in Iowa; but at that time we could not hunt deer as there was a state wide lottery and if we even got lucky a won a tag, it might have been well outside our county and we could not afford to travel outside our county. So when I came to Virginia, I was very eager to hunt deer and was finally able to do it a lot from the 1980's onward. Initially I bought the special detergents to wash my hunting clothes, the musks/scents to disguise my human scent and tobacco smell, not wear cologne or use scented deodorant and a host of things that were supposed to not alert the deer. When I took a stand either during a drive or when out hunting without dogs, I refrained from smoking while walking to or actually on stand. To put it bluntly, it was a waste of money and time. I want to make it clear I'm not just talking when dogs are used to drive deer or when the Bucks are in rut, as those things will cause them to be less wary. Further, we hunted on farm property in less populated counties and of course in the woods and swamps around those properties and I don't doubt the deer got used to human smells or smells from human activities. (Deer in Northern Virginia became problematic for eating shrubbery and other things in the gardens and back yards of suburban housing areas that were right on the edges of towns and cities where there is the largest concentration of human population.) The most successful hunter in our club for many years was the Wife of the Club President, while she was still physically able to hunt. Her "secret" to success was to sit down on the ground or on the folding stools we carried, near to or with her back against a tree, smoke as many cigarettes as she liked and only put the cigarette out when she heard something. (The red coal at the end of the cigarette definitely is something that will alert deer to danger.) She wore scented deodorant and washed her clothes in regular detergent. She did not wear perfume in the woods, but usually wore a little cologne. She used to joke that even though she snored loudly; when she went to sleep on stand and when she awoke, there was a deer to shoot. Now of course noises humans make or movement will give a hunter away to a deer. I have come to believe the human silhouette will also be a give a hunter away to a deer, so it is best to blend into the environment, even if that means backing up against a tree. I wound up putting that to the test on one hunt when hunting alone and the area I was in had virtually no cover, unless I laid on the ground, which was way too cold to do that day. I opened my stool in a place that looked like it would cover the areas deer might cross. I pulled out a G.I. poncho liner and draped it around the stool to break up the outline. I sat hunched down with my shotgun in my hands in my lap and my torso over the gun when I heard something. Actually, it was more comfortable than it might sound. The third time I heard something, it was a large 6 point buck with very thick antler tines. I waited until he got very close and closer than what I thought he might come, before I shot. When I raised up to sitting position to shoot, he bolted, but I put him down with one shot and probably thanks to the experience I had shooting at running rabbits and low flying game. BTW and for what its worth, our Scout Sniper Instructors at Quantico have often mentioned how they and their students often "surprise" deer, thanks to the Ghillie Suits they wear and that breaks up their outline so effectively. I would be very interested to read more on hunting during the period, to see how it may differ from modern experiences. The only account I have read of in the period on turkey hunting was in the early 18th century here in Virginia and we would not think it "sporting" today. As I recall it was in the Shenandoah Valley. As the farmer was heading into his cabin for supper as the sun went down, he noticed some turkeys roosting in a large tree. He made a point to come back before dawn the next morning to the tree and shot one bird still roosting there. Gus
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