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Post by Black Hand on Apr 16, 2020 3:32:05 GMT -7
To the best of my knowledge, swamped rifle barrels were the norm in the 18th century. Long straight barrels don't balance well and tend to be very nose-heavy. Other barrels, such as those on fowling pieces and smoothbore military guns, tended to be generally tapered, which also kept the weight to the breech end.
Now, one can swamp a straight barrel with a considerable investment in effort.
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Post by hawkeyes on Apr 16, 2020 3:53:01 GMT -7
I think the takeaway and what I tried to convey was .50 wasn't a standard caliber during the period as it is today. There were no "standard calibers" per say. Variations existed from each and every bore due to the nature of their manufacturing process.
A swamped barrel is the only way to go. There is a reason these barrels were swamped. If you are spending the $$$ and sparing no expenses that should be a number one priority next to wood selection.
Likely get ate up for saying there were no "standard calibers" but please show me refrences of an exact rifle cut to .50 repeatedly during the period. In respect, none of our rifles are HC in that matter. Sorry gents, get tired of beating a dead horse at times. We do our best at emulating what we have and I understand the OP's question, but frankly 50 nor any of our modern calibers are HC, the variations and differences existed. Only way to get a truly HC caliber is to have it forged on a swage over a specific mandrel, forge welded, cut for rifling then finished by hand.
However, we have to get close and MAKE DO with what we have available today and that is acceptable. Should have said it from the start and I didn't but yes, obviously. 50 will be adequate. However I would absolutely get that .50 swamped. You won't regret the decision once you shoulder her and feel just how well she balances. A straight .50 barrel is heavy and cumbersome. Swamp it, very pleasant to carry in terms of weight.
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Post by paranger on Apr 16, 2020 4:15:35 GMT -7
I hate to pile on, but I absolutely agree with BH and Hawkeyes. With all the thought, time, and money involved, sell the straight barrel and wait until the right swamped barrel comes along if HC is important to you. Furthermore, even if HC is NOT important to you, as also mentioned, if you have shot (or even held) both, you will know why they did it that way.
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Post by hawkeyes on Apr 16, 2020 5:59:05 GMT -7
I hate to pile on, but I absolutely agree with BH and Hawkeyes. With all the thought, time, and money involved, sell the straight barrel and wait until the right swamped barrel comes along if HC is important to you. Furthermore, even if HC is NOT important to you, as also mentioned, if you have shot (or even held) both, you will know why they did it that way. Bingo, in terms of doing it right no maker that I know of will steer someone away from a swamped barrel to a straight, respectably it's the opposite. Bring me a straight barrel and I'll do it for you, but I'm going to put two examples in your hand to feel and examine. 99% positive you'll select the swamped profile. I built a straight barreled genaric golden aged rifle some years ago in 54. Excellent shooting rifle but still it was very awkwardly balanced and that will be more so the case with a 50. If your maker won't build a swamped rifle, go elsewhere. They really are not that hard to do right. I personally have only worked four swamped barrel builds so I'm no expert but the proof indeed comes down to comparison and if it was my money, wouldn't even be having this conversation. I highly, highly suggest you get yourself a quality swamped barrel, you'll certainly be glad you did. For what it's worth, the swamped verus straight profile is more important than the caliber IMO. In a way this is much like a blacksmithing topic I had with a friend on anvils yesterday, he loved his until he came out and worked on my anvil. People must have an object shaped like a true pattern anvil... Well railroad track configurations are everywhere. Simply put, railroad track anvils are absolutely terrible for serious metal moving. Why? Mass, they have absolutely zero mass unless turned on end. Real anvils have an iron base that makes up approximately 90% of the body which = mass under the working surface. The next 10% is your hardened work surface. Bla, bla, bla... I'll stop. Long story short, this anvil topic is much like a straight verus swamped barrel. Proof is in the function and that will wins everytime.
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coot
City-dweller
Posts: 156
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Post by coot on Apr 16, 2020 12:32:30 GMT -7
Please hold out for a swamped barrel. You are going to a lot of trouble & expense so don't "settle" for a straight barrel. Straight barrels became common on later guns with factory made (machined) barrels in shorter lengths where straight was easier to make on machines and the shorter length made the weight saving & better handling of the swamped barre less important. A long rifle will look & handle better with a swamped barrel.
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Post by colmoultrie on Apr 16, 2020 12:42:46 GMT -7
Absolutely! As I said before, go with swamped. After all, you’re saying you want this gun to be as close to an original as possible. If that’s the case, put the straight barrel away until you want a mid-nineteenth century gun, and save up for a swamped barrel.
Don’t kill the correctness of this project from the start.
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Post by artificer on Apr 27, 2020 18:44:58 GMT -7
Jason,
I own a very nice hand built rifle that was assembled in 1974 with a nicely tuned Siler lock, Nice wood and a STRAIGHT 39 inch barrel in .45 caliber. I'm not going to say swamped barrels were totally unavailable back then, but they were very uncommon for building repro rifles. Let me tell you, that is ONE MUZZLE HEAVY RIFLE, that was OK for the Young/Strong version on myself on active duty in the Marine Corps in the 70s and especially for Offhand shooting, WHERE I WASN'T TRYING TO CARRY THE RIFLE ANY DISTANCE, just from my car a short distance to the range or to the Lodge/Tipi and from there a short distance to the range. It really shows why they swamped the long barrels in the period, though.
Since that time I have handed many, many swamped rifle barrels and can tell you there is NO WAY I would ever accept a straight barrel for a flintlock Long Rifle if I was going to have another rifle built today. I would also most strongly suggest you see/trade that straight barrel and wait until you can get a swamped barrel, from years of real world experience using a straight barreled long rifle.
Gus
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