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Post by Rodman on Jan 1, 2022 20:10:33 GMT -7
Question, what colors were available back in 1815-1820? How intense/bright were they? I am going to build another possibles bag and I wanna get things right. I’m ScotsIrish, so Red and Green are of course on the menu. Maybe no color at all…some how that doesn’t work, look at their dirks and clan patterns. Color and design was important. Thoughts? Suggestions? I got thick skin, speak your mind, tell me what ya think.
RM
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Post by paranger on Jan 2, 2022 7:14:58 GMT -7
I have never come across a period shooting bag in green. I have done significant research on "Russia Red" leather, but it was really only accessible by the wealthy, and more of a reddish brown. Here is a modern recreation of Russia Red in an English gentleman's bag I made from the English tannery J&FJ Baker: BTW, orange and green is from the Irish flag (ca.1916), an anachronism for an early 19th c. Ulster Scot. You might seek out a copy of Madison Grant's book Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouches, or similar to get a feel for period bags. Check the "craftsman and artisan" archives here, too, as there are several based on surviving bags.
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Post by brokennock on Jan 2, 2022 8:01:30 GMT -7
Okay, I'll be "that guy." Are you speaking of making a shot pouch or a bag for you other miscellaneous stuff, your "possibles"? We have no evidence of the bag used for shooting being called a possibles bag during the muzzleloading period. This is often a hotly debated topic. Unfortunately this creates confusion then the term is used. Also, with your description of colors, I am assuming you are speaking of using cloth, which also leads me to think that you are not speaking of a shot pouch.
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Jan 2, 2022 8:56:49 GMT -7
Post by Rodman on Jan 2, 2022 8:56:49 GMT -7
I should have been more specific, but Paranger was tracking on the question. When I said colors, I was speaking generally as far as what was available. No, I don't think there were "Green Bags" either LOL! but would a green or red trimmed bag be appropriate? Also, I was curious as to what was common. For example when I say green what was the most common? Kelly Green or a Dark Green. Or do we really know?
That Russian Red bag does answer part of the question and gives me some ideas. Thinking I need to do some more research.
RM
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Color
Jan 2, 2022 9:01:20 GMT -7
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Post by paranger on Jan 2, 2022 9:01:20 GMT -7
I should have been more specific, but Paranger was tracking on the question. When I said colors, I was speaking generally as far as what was available. No, I don't think there were "Green Bags" either LOL! but would a green or red trimmed bag be appropriate? Also, I was curious as to what was common. For example when I say green what was the most common? Kelly Green or a Dark Green. Or do we really know? That Russian Red bag does answer part of the question and gives me some ideas. Thinking I need to do some more research. RM I have seen some evidence of contrasting colored trim, particularly for 19th c. bags, which would be right for your target period. By that time, there seems to have been a market for professionally made shooting accoutrements, particularly in commercial gunmaking areas such as Lancaster, PA. I have made some like this as well (see Artisan / Craftsman section)
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Jan 2, 2022 9:05:24 GMT -7
Post by Rodman on Jan 2, 2022 9:05:24 GMT -7
Okay, I'll be "that guy." Are you speaking of making a shot pouch or a bag for you other miscellaneous stuff, your "possibles"? We have no evidence of the bag used for shooting being called a possibles bag during the muzzleloading period. This is often a hotly debated topic. Unfortunately this creates confusion then the term is used. Also, with your description of colors, I am assuming you are speaking of using cloth, which also leads me to think that you are not speaking of a shot pouch. I have heard this before, keep me strait boss! The "Shot Pouch" will be constructed of leather and lined with linen. I was thinking about using a color, red or green or some other color for contrast for the piping and trim. Just trying to get a feel what was realistically available. I want to jaz it up a bit but not too much. Figured I would hit you fellas up for ideas, looks like I need to do some more research. RM
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Post by hawkeyes on Jan 2, 2022 9:06:42 GMT -7
A recently completed shooting bag with vinagaroon dyed trim and strap. The bag hasn't been conditioned yet. Many options at your disposal concerning dye what do you particularly like?
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Post by Rodman on Jan 2, 2022 9:07:34 GMT -7
^ Nice!
Paranger - Will do, I will check it out,
Thanks!
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Color
Jan 2, 2022 9:50:45 GMT -7
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Post by brokennock on Jan 2, 2022 9:50:45 GMT -7
I haven't heard of a lot of "colored" leather bags, beyond the usual shades of brown, black, and natural. There is always the "blue plush" shot pouch that gets mentioned, so it isn't out of the realm of possibility. Your time period is later than mine so I'm not sure about style and technology changes. Very unsure about the possibility of dying leather green. Green cloth involved a two step dying process. There was no green dye, and I'm not sure when a one step green dye became available, certainly not until chemical dyes were introduced.
One possibility is to stick with the usual leather colors for your bag and trim/binding like on the bag that Hawkeyes posted. But have a pierced design cut in the flap with colored cloth behind it. We often see this in the form of weeping hearts or the cross of Lorraine with red or black felt or felted wool.
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Post by paranger on Jan 2, 2022 10:11:13 GMT -7
Morrocan red leather was also known to the 18th c. Anglo-Atlantic world. You would probably want to research availability in your area of interest, but I could see it as a definite possibility - especially for trim on a fancy commercially produced bag (e.g., professional harness maker). remove duplicates from list online
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Post by brokennock on Jan 2, 2022 10:19:17 GMT -7
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Post by hawkeyes on Jan 2, 2022 14:44:25 GMT -7
I haven't much fiddled with coloration outside vinagaroon dye which is well documented even back to the Roman's which produces a rich lusterious black. Once bags are conditioned they usually take a deeper color depending on what type of conditioner you use so keep that in mind as well. For me that's usually either 100% mink/ beeswax or bear/ beeswax. Another topic in itself.
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Post by paranger on Jan 2, 2022 14:59:52 GMT -7
I have dyed leather for bags with vinegaroon, walnut, and logwood - all of which are period dyes.
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Color
Jan 2, 2022 15:55:42 GMT -7
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Post by Rodman on Jan 2, 2022 15:55:42 GMT -7
Do you fellas have a “go to” place for your leather?
RM
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Post by paranger on Jan 2, 2022 16:41:56 GMT -7
Do you fellas have a “go to” place for your leather? RM I do not, personally. Kind of depends what you want to make: hair-on, cowhide, deer/elk, etc. I am a big fan of traditionally bark-tanned, or brain-tanned deer or elk, but it is hard to find. I have had some good luck with a couple of "off the grid" etsy sellers who do a nice job, but demand always seems to exceed supply. I would avoid anything chrome tanned, unless it is hair-on. Quality vegetable tanned cowhide is a good choice (I like 4-5oz, personally), as it more closely mimics traditional tanning methods than some other modern processes.
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