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Post by artificer on Mar 28, 2022 19:34:53 GMT -7
"Tandy says flat out that it's done by thickness, regardless of type of leather or type of tanning, and that 1 oz. is 1/64". That's .0156"."
Spence is correct that's what Tandy says, but the leather they stock doesn't match this except for their Veg Tanned leather.
Before Covid, I went in and checked out their "oil tanned" leathers. BTW, Oil Tan is misnomer. Most Leather is tanned either by HCPC "Veg" Tanned having used Oak Bark, Sumac leaves or some lesser used plants containing tannin OR it is tanned by Chromium Salts or Chrome Tanned, which was not invented until 1858. I looked it up and many sources said something like 80-85 percent of all leather today is Chrome Tanned, BTW.
In the 18th century, leather was tanned either brain tanned or most commonly veg tanned and some other types of tanning that are not good for our purposes. Then during the Currying process the hides were skived to a fairly uniform thickness and might be further stained to different colors and finished. THEN if the leather needed to be rather pliable and as a way to make it more water resistant, they did a further process they called "Oil or Oyl Stuff'd or Stufft." The process involved working oils, fats and waxes into the leather. Today they commonly call this "Oil Tan" or "Oil Tanned," though it has nothing to do with the tanning process.
I checked out two kinds of TANDY's "Oil Tan" leather and they were definitely thinner than the corresponding Veg Tan in the same "oz" sizes. I was very puzzled by this at first and asked a sales representative about it, though as I asked it dawned on me the oils and waxes added weight to the leather, so even though they were thinner in size, they had larger oz. ratings. So whether or not Tandy says so, not all their leather is sized by thickness alone.
Gus
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Post by artificer on Mar 29, 2022 4:27:50 GMT -7
FWIW, historically before precision measuring instruments became low enough price for average tradesmen, leather was sold by the pound and by how involved the Currying Process/es was/were, if done additionally. Calipers that would read to .001" or one thousandth of an inch did not become so affordable until around 1840, btw. Before that, calipers were made that read to 1/16" and sometimes smaller, but were very expensive and beyond being affordable by many, if not most tradesmen.
Many times I've come across the following method they supposedly used, though no one seems to provide period documentation. This method involved cutting leather into a 12" square, soaking it in water and then weighing it on a balance beam scale with different size weights. So if that water soaked 12" square of leather weighed 6 oz, that's how the "oz" size for thickness came about. However, a true 6 oz weight seems a lot heavier than a water soaked 12" square of 6 oz leather. So I don't know how factual the old accounts are. Maybe they cut larger pieces than 12" square and then soaked and weighed them? I think this more likely, but can't document it.
Of course when oils, fats and waxes were sometimes added during the currying process to make the leather "Oil Stufft," that increased the weight of the leather for each thickness. Since I've handled a number of different modern "Oil Tan" leathers since I first tried it a couple three years ago, such leather does seem to be generally thinner than "Veg" or "Oak" tanned leather and of a more pliable temper.
Gus
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Post by armando on Mar 29, 2022 14:00:36 GMT -7
Darn I don’t think there’s a Tandy store within 100 miles of me! I wonder if they are doing it on their online store also?
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Post by artificer on Mar 29, 2022 16:40:54 GMT -7
Darn I don’t think there’s a Tandy store within 100 miles of me! I wonder if they are doing it on their online store also? They most likely are, BUT again I strongly advise you don't get it that way. Too much of a chance you won't be pleased with a random selection by someone else. Gus
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Post by brokennock on Mar 29, 2022 18:04:26 GMT -7
Darn I don’t think there’s a Tandy store within 100 miles of me! I wonder if they are doing it on their online store also? Only one way to find out. I would be surprised if there isn't one within an hour or two of you. Maybe a little more but hopefully near something/somewhere else of interest or use to you.
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Post by brokennock on Mar 29, 2022 18:06:36 GMT -7
I bought some pig leather from Tandy that is pretreated with waxes and such, it works out great for a shot pouch. I agree. I bought pigskin from a vendor at a Friendship meet and wound up making both the pouches I have used extensively from it, never a problem. I don't know what process was used to tan it, it's pretty firm, has a distinct flesh and hair side, and a slight pebble finish. I expect some kind of vegetable tan. It was pre-dyed a deep brown. I've never really gotten straight in my head how the "weight" of leather is figured, Tandy says flat out that it's done by thickness, regardless of type of leather or type of tanning, and that 1 oz. is 1/64". That's .0156". My leather measures .055", so I guess it's 3 1/2 ounce. Whatever, it is a very good weight for a pouch, stiff enough, very durable, Neither pouch shows any significant wear after about 30 years of hard use. Spence The close up of your bag makes me think that the leather is pretty close to the same, if not the se as what I have. It is interesting to me how water resistant it is given the very visible pores. One trouble I had was loosing sight of my stitching marks amongst those pores, lol.
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Post by armando on Apr 1, 2022 6:14:16 GMT -7
Well I had to throw something together quickly for an event and I’m pretty pleased with the final result. I was using that rather thick/stiff buckskin I had harvested a couple of years ago. As I was putting it together into the shape of the piedmont bag I realized I could incorporate the piece of the hide that had the hole where my ball had hit on this buck. I thought it ended up coming out pretty neat and with its own character. It also worked great during our post shoot.
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Post by hawkeyes on Apr 1, 2022 7:01:11 GMT -7
A completed bag from cowhide with a hair on flap. Edging and strap are vinagaroon dyed. Haven't greased or used this setup yet. I like smaller bags versus grandma's purse as SH mentioned previously which tend to dominate the hobby, more so on rendezvous/ buckskinner crowd. Like the simplicity of your completed shooting bag, looks good.
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Post by paranger on Apr 1, 2022 8:59:42 GMT -7
Nice job, fellas.
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Post by artificer on Apr 3, 2022 21:34:21 GMT -7
A completed bag from cowhide with a hair on flap. Edging and strap are vinagaroon dyed. Haven't greased or used this setup yet. Like the simplicity of your completed shooting bag, looks good. Nice hand stitching. Gus
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Post by hawkeyes on Apr 4, 2022 3:42:17 GMT -7
A completed bag from cowhide with a hair on flap. Edging and strap are vinagaroon dyed. Haven't greased or used this setup yet. Like the simplicity of your completed shooting bag, looks good. Nice hand stitching. Gus Thank you Gus, I actually have migrated to using a hole punch made from an old spade bit. Speeds up the process but drastically improves the overall quality and appearance of the stitching.
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