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Post by spence on May 30, 2022 12:13:27 GMT -7
Another lot, early bottles, from the Wnuck auction: That bottle on the left reminded me I have a couple of early bottles which might be of interest. Dark glass, obviously hand blown, deeply concave bottom with a large pontil mark, irregular bottom and mouth. Set them down and they rock back and forth for a long time, finally settle down leaning a little.. Spence
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Post by spence on May 30, 2022 12:18:21 GMT -7
Two more views: Spence
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Post by lenapej on Jun 1, 2022 16:33:57 GMT -7
Spence Nice bottles, do you have an idea on the time period for those? I have been on the lookout for bottles that would fit the mid 18th century to keep apple cider etc at events or treks, I have always liked the onion bottles (shown in the painting that RyanAK shared a while back) and have been trying to decide between that or a "mallet" bottle. Some mallet bottles said to be originals
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Post by spence on Jun 1, 2022 17:20:34 GMT -7
Nice bottles, do you have an idea on the time period for those? I really don't, lenapej. I've aways assumed early 19th century. That pontil mark on the base disappeared about mid-1800s, so earlier than that. It had its beginnings centuries before, so that's no help. I doubt mid-18th century. I presume a knowledgeable collector could tell a lot by the shape, color, etc. but that's beyond me. They are 40 years older than when I bought them, if that helps. Spence
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Post by lenapej on Jun 1, 2022 17:45:43 GMT -7
ok thanks.
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Post by artificer on Jun 1, 2022 18:03:42 GMT -7
Spence Nice bottles, do you have an idea on the time period for those? I have been on the lookout for bottles that would fit the mid 18th century to keep apple cider etc at events or treks, I have always liked the onion bottles (shown in the painting that RyanAK shared a while back) and have been trying to decide between that or a "mallet" bottle. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> Some mallet bottles said to be originals <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> Either the Onion (which surprisingly hung around to the third quarter of the 18th century) or the Mallet Bottles you pictured are fine for the 1750's, especially as Mallet Bottles were being made here in New Jersey in a factory owned by Caspar Wistar by that time. www.historical-american-glass.com/wistarburgh-glass.html "At the beginning of the 18th century, bottles were hand blown and bulbous in shape. They could not be laid on their sides and were therefore unsuitable for long term ageing. Instead, they were used mainly to convey the wine from the wine merchant’s cask to the consumer’s table. Because bottles were expensive, they were re-used and often displayed the crest or initials of their owner." As the 18th century progressed, bottles became taller and more cylindrical. The early bulbous ‘onion’ shape gradually evolved into a more elongated, straight-sided bottle with a longer neck. The first stage in this evolution was the appearance of the ‘mallet’ shaped bottle which had become well established in England by around 1730. Like their predecessors, the first ‘mallet’ bottles were squat in shape. Their sides were often tapered towards the shoulder rather than completely parallel. However, by around 1750, the ‘mallet’ bottle had developed a more cylindrical form." Quick guide: i.pinimg.com/736x/2e/5f/da/2e5fdad815e383c33dfc5d1c5f8e1508.jpgNotice the middle bottle and date in this link. "Figure 4: Bottle embossed “WM. SAVORY 1752.” www.fohbc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/TheWistars_4Fall2005.pdfMore originals: www.aaawt.com/html/ceramic_gallery5.htmlA more diverse selection of bottle styles: www.theglassmakers.co.uk/bottles.htmGus
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Post by spence on Jun 1, 2022 19:59:30 GMT -7
Thanks, Gus. A lot of good info. My bottles could be older than I thought.
Spence
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Post by artificer on Jun 2, 2022 1:51:58 GMT -7
Spence,
Thank you. Wish I could be more sure of how old your bottles are, but I'm not. I have no idea if they might have made it before the end of the 18th century, though I think the first quarter of the 19th century is a safe bet. Still, that is a bit beyond my study of old bottles.
Gus
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 2, 2022 6:11:16 GMT -7
This stuff is great. And Spence, those bottles are darn cool. I wonder what kind of prices bottles were bringing at merchants in towns and if they were a ‘necessity’ that made its way to frontier traders like at Pitt.
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Post by spence on Jun 2, 2022 7:14:02 GMT -7
Bottles show up in the newspapers of the day quite often, and in some interesting ways. A lot of goods are advertised as being sold in bottles, the bottles themselves are offered for sale, etc.
Pennsylvania Gazette October 8, 1778 The Pennsylvania Packet TO BE SOLD, At H. TAYLOR, Upholsterer, in Second street, between Market and Arch streets, Philadelphia, NEAT travelling chests, that fix to a saddle and contain tea and sugar cannisters, tea pot, cups and saucers, tumbler, knives and forks, plates, and small bottles for pepper, mustard, oil and vinegar.
The South Carolina Gazette September 9, 1745 The said Joseph Calvert brews extraordinary good Old England Table Beer, and sells it at 15 sh. per Dozen Bottles (the Buyer finding Bottles) or 5 sh. per Gallon.
The Pennsylvania Gazette March 16, 1732 There is to be sold by the said Samuel, Strong Beer for 24s. the Barrel, or 12d. the Gallon; Good Ale for 16s. the Barrel, or 6d. the Gallon; and Middling Beer for 8s. the Barrel, or 4d. the Gallon. Those that send clean Bottles with good Corks , may have the best Beer for 4s. the Dozen, and Middling Beer for 2s. the Dozen.
The Pennsylvania Gazette May 9, 1765 Just imported in the Ship Ellis, Captain Egdon, and the Britannia, Captain McPherson, from LONDON,... flint bottles, with glass stoppers, and specie bottles with brass caps of all sizes
THE VIRGINIA GAZETTE September 19, 1766 Sold at John Greenhow's store, near the Church, in Williamsburg,….half gallon case bottles, wide mouth bottles
CHARLES-TOWN February 27, 1755 HAS just imported in Capt. Ball from London…. masons badge and seals, temple spectacles with green glass, smelling bottles and reading glasses garnished with silver,
Spence
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Post by artificer on Jun 2, 2022 14:08:51 GMT -7
This stuff is great. And Spence, those bottles are darn cool. I wonder what kind of prices bottles were bringing at merchants in towns and if they were a ‘necessity’ that made its way to frontier traders like at Pitt. Did frontier traders order wine from back east much, if at all? If so, would it have been sent in wood casks or maybe glass demijohns in crates stuffed with straw? Were there enough customers who could afford the cost of the wine including the shipping expenses? I admit I don't know. Gus
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Post by lenapej on Jun 4, 2022 8:57:41 GMT -7
Artificer Thanks for the great info and links, much appreciated.
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Post by artificer on Jun 4, 2022 10:06:46 GMT -7
Artificer Thanks for the great info and links, much appreciated. You are most welcome. Gus
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Post by artificer on Jun 7, 2022 0:34:21 GMT -7
This stuff is great. And Spence, those bottles are darn cool. I wonder what kind of prices bottles were bringing at merchants in towns and if they were a ‘necessity’ that made its way to frontier traders like at Pitt. Did frontier traders order wine from back east much, if at all? If so, would it have been sent in wood casks or maybe glass demijohns in crates stuffed with straw? Were there enough customers who could afford the cost of the wine including the shipping expenses? I admit I don't know. Gus And don't forget that when British Officers were stationed in barbaric lands, that they would never forget to "Protect the Claret." LOL Gus
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