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Post by straekat on Sept 28, 2019 17:22:34 GMT -7
Hawk,
Thin leather can and probably will stretch out during the breaking in process, so adjusting the buckles may be necessary. Alternatively, you can wear thicker socks, or two or more layers depending on how loose they feel on the feet.Suggestion, break them in a bit before deciding if you definitely want to go either tied or buckled. In the meantime, you could turn the tabs/latchets under with a single hole through the doubled leather, until you decide which you really want.
If you do the really up-town struttin' your stuff thing with the heels painted red (suggesting you were introduced at a royal court, not the civil or criminal courts), in order to impress the ladies and the rest of us country bumpkins, then buckles would be expected. Then, he more $$$$ the buckles are worth, the better. ;-)
Btw, I have to check the book on archaeological work at Fort Ligonier. If memory serves me correctly, a large number of the recovered shoe remains suggested most were, or probably were buckled, although some tied ones were recovered. Give me a few days to dig my book out and check for photos, and/or the passages where that was mentioned in the report.
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Post by hawkeyes on Oct 1, 2019 5:05:00 GMT -7
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Post by hawkeyes on Oct 1, 2019 7:05:03 GMT -7
To date, just placed an order for heel plates. Believe I will just roll on and utlize them along with hob nails on the sole to enhance the longevity of sole/heel in a period manner.
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Post by artificer on Oct 5, 2019 7:02:48 GMT -7
I am not an expert on period shoes, but I have spent hours in the Cordwainer's Shop at Colonial Williamsburg and the Cobbler's Shop at Historic Winston Salem asking many questions at both and in the former getting some instruction on period sewing. I think meaning of "Country Shoes" changed during the late 17th century and into the 18th century. In the late 17th/Early 18th century, I think it meant a basic kind of shoe that was tied, as Keith pictured examples earlier in his post and is shown offered for sale in the following quote:. (I first bought this paper back booklet in the mid 70's at Colonial Williamsburg, but fortunately it is now online.) From "LEATHER WORKERS IN COLONIAL VIRGINIA" Harold B. Gill, Jr . August, 1966 Page 24, "Joseph Walker offered both imported and Virginia-made shoes for sale in his store: 6 pr Country Shooes 18/ 13 pr large Youths Shooes 2/6 " I think later in the 18th century the term "Country Shoe" came to mean either a basic rather inexpensive tied shoe that was either imported or made for sale by Cordwainers and Cobblers in the Colonies and/or also meant shoes that were made by the farmers and others themselves. These shoes were not made on a specially made and measured last for an individual, as was done by a skilled Cordwainer, rather the leather was cut and the shoes made to period sizes and then sold in shops. However, it could also mean shoes made at home. IOW, I think it became what we might call a "generic" term for inexpensive shoes. By the third quarter of the 18th century, the term "Common Shoes" was well known. I think this term came to be used for shoes that were cut to patterns and made to general sizes and was the term used to differentiate them from "Negroe" or "Slave Shoes." Anyway, here is a link to the booklet and it is a treasure trove of information not only on leather and shoes, but some may find the items listed in the Appendix on " Inventories of Estates of Some Eighteenth-Century Leather Workers" to list other useful information. research.history.org/DigitalLibrary/View/index.cfm?doc=ResearchReports%5CRR0107.xmlGus
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Post by brokennock on Oct 5, 2019 8:18:22 GMT -7
What shoes are available now that are correct for middle to late 18th century that have the lowest (thinnest?) heel?
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Post by spence on Oct 5, 2019 18:19:50 GMT -7
I have straight last shoes from Jas. Townsend which I bought 30 years ago. They have a heel very much like modern shoes, certainly not too high for me. The shoes they sell now seem to be the same, but I have no way of knowing if that is true. There are other vendors, but I have no experience or knowledge of them. Spence
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Post by hawkeyes on Oct 19, 2019 6:16:27 GMT -7
Still have yet to acquire a good pair of buckles. However, did outfit my shoes with heel plates and hobnails which has made a huge difference just walking around the yard. No longer ice skating on bare ground. The entire process was a pain. I made a shoe form or something similar to a cobblers shoe anvil to affix in my vice from oak. This made a huge difference in the ease of driving the nails. Very important though a proper clearance hole is drilled before hand, otherwise the leather will split like wood. Overall very, very happy with the efforts. Trekking and hunts should be no problem on the hills and ravines. Wood floors however are a no go, give and take which means I may have to get another pair for that purpose.
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Post by Black Hand on Oct 19, 2019 6:23:15 GMT -7
Linoleum, tile and engineered flooring will also be dangerous...
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Post by spence on Oct 19, 2019 8:44:48 GMT -7
Hobnails were apparently fairly common in the day. The Pennsylvania Gazette
April 14, 1773
THIRTY SHILLINGS Reward.
RUN AWAY, .... had on a bearskin coat, striped calimancoe jacket, old black breeches, hob-nailed shoes, Russia sheeting shirt; carried with him a striped shirt, two white ones, a pair of lincey trowsers, white ditto, and a pair of hob-nailed shoes. The Pennsylvania Gazette April 12, 1775 Baltimore County, Patapsco Neck, April 3, 1775. His working cloaths were a home manufactured long cloth waistcoat with sleeves, and breeches, yarn stockings, ozenbrigs shirt, and good shoes, nailed with bobs; The Pennsylvania Gazette February 24, 1743 RUN away .... Had on a brown lincey Jacket and Breeches, with flat pewter Buttons, coarse brown Stockings, and good Shoes drove round with Nails, The Pennsylvania Gazette February 4, 1768 RUN away.... a pair of Germantown stockings, of a lightish colour, a pair of soaled shoes, well hob nailed, with a pair of brass or copper buckles, THE VIRGINIA GAZETTE June 30, 1775 FINCASTLE RUN away....He was clad in a hunting shirt filled with wool, buckskin breeches, linsey leggings, a wool hat, and his shoes nailed all round, both heels and soles. The Pennsylvania Gazette September 20, 1764 RUN away…. had on, and took with him, a white Broadcloth Coat, and Breeches of the same, brown Waistcoat, with Mohair Buttons, and 4 Pair of Stockings, one Pair Leather, one black, and another blue, and sundry Sorts of Goods; old Shoes, with nails from the Heel round the Soals, with Metal Buckles; The Pennsylvania Gazette September 15, 1768 EIGHT POUNDS Reward. RUN away.... Negroe CYRUS, a stout well made fellow, and speaks very gruff; has on a cotton and fearnought jacket, ozenbrigs shirt, short ozenbrigs trowsers, Monmouth cap, and a pair of English flatts, nailed all round. Virginia Gazette
(Purdie), Williamsburg
April 21, 1775. Fifty six dollars reward. RUN away.... seven English servant men,…. They had, and took with them, a country square-barrelled smooth bore gun rifle-stocked, one pistol, and other fire-arms. Several of them have hobnails in their shoes. One thought about leather soled shoes and the slickness problem. I've found that after some time in use the soles get roughed up and are less likely to spill you. When new they have a sort of glazed surface, very smooth, but that doesn't last long. Mine are plain, andI don't find them to be a problem in most situations. Hawkeyes, those big heel plates can dump you right quick on hard slick floors, too. Most of us walk heel first, and they don't always stay where we put them with heel caps on. Don't break anything important. Spence
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Post by hawkeyes on Oct 19, 2019 9:39:09 GMT -7
Hobnails were apparently fairly common in the day. The Pennsylvania Gazette
April 14, 1773
THIRTY SHILLINGS Reward.
RUN AWAY, .... had on a bearskin coat, striped calimancoe jacket, old black breeches, hob-nailed shoes, Russia sheeting shirt; carried with him a striped shirt, two white ones, a pair of lincey trowsers, white ditto, and a pair of hob-nailed shoes. The Pennsylvania Gazette April 12, 1775 Baltimore County, Patapsco Neck, April 3, 1775. His working cloaths were a home manufactured long cloth waistcoat with sleeves, and breeches, yarn stockings, ozenbrigs shirt, and good shoes, nailed with bobs; The Pennsylvania Gazette February 24, 1743 RUN away .... Had on a brown lincey Jacket and Breeches, with flat pewter Buttons, coarse brown Stockings, and good Shoes drove round with Nails, The Pennsylvania Gazette February 4, 1768 RUN away.... a pair of Germantown stockings, of a lightish colour, a pair of soaled shoes, well hob nailed, with a pair of brass or copper buckles, THE VIRGINIA GAZETTE June 30, 1775 FINCASTLE RUN away....He was clad in a hunting shirt filled with wool, buckskin breeches, linsey leggings, a wool hat, and his shoes nailed all round, both heels and soles. The Pennsylvania Gazette September 20, 1764 RUN away…. had on, and took with him, a white Broadcloth Coat, and Breeches of the same, brown Waistcoat, with Mohair Buttons, and 4 Pair of Stockings, one Pair Leather, one black, and another blue, and sundry Sorts of Goods; old Shoes, with nails from the Heel round the Soals, with Metal Buckles; The Pennsylvania Gazette September 15, 1768 EIGHT POUNDS Reward. RUN away.... Negroe CYRUS, a stout well made fellow, and speaks very gruff; has on a cotton and fearnought jacket, ozenbrigs shirt, short ozenbrigs trowsers, Monmouth cap, and a pair of English flatts, nailed all round. Virginia Gazette
(Purdie), Williamsburg
April 21, 1775. Fifty six dollars reward. RUN away.... seven English servant men,…. They had, and took with them, a country square-barrelled smooth bore gun rifle-stocked, one pistol, and other fire-arms. Several of them have hobnails in their shoes. One thought about leather soled shoes and the slickness problem. I've found that after some time in use the soles get roughed up and are less likely to spill you. When new they have a sort of glazed surface, very smooth, but that doesn't last long. Mine are plain, andI don't find them to be a problem in most situations. Hawkeyes, those big heel plates can dump you right quick on hard slick floors, too. Most of us walk heel first, and they don't always stay where we put them with heel caps on. Don't break anything important. Spence Excellent passages as usual and good points on the heel plates, I took another compromise essentially to maintain heel longevity which now shouldn't be a problem. Granted the woods wouldn't have been to hard on them I'd figure as they were, but given most places that hold events have concrete and asphalt guess it doesn't hurt. Those heels and soles indeed are slippery like a salamander. From what I've gathered it has something to do with the tanning process of the leather. I will say they may make a fabulous pair of tap dancing shoes! Hehe.
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Post by brokennock on Oct 19, 2019 18:36:35 GMT -7
those heel plates look,,,,, loud. Say hello to Gegory Hines for me....
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Post by hawkeyes on Oct 20, 2019 4:06:00 GMT -7
those heel plates look,,,,, loud. Say hello to Gegory Hines for me.... On concrete/ asphalt yes sir absolutely has a distinctive click, click that reminds me of the drill instructor hurrying your way... Regular ground not at all. Woods walking in relative silence IMO is about thinking where/ how you walk and place your foot before stomping through. Still I personally favor mocs for most activities in general but have grown to like these shoes over the weeks.
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