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Post by brokennock on Nov 18, 2019 20:40:30 GMT -7
I am perusing (window shopping as I'm still broke, but I'll call it "researching" for when I'm not) the Fugawee website and have a few basic questions. The 1st I'm sure has been discussed before elsewhere, probably ad nauseum, but I don't feel like sifting through all b.s. on some other forums. How early can the hi-lo boots be considered acceptable? I know better than to trust a vendor's claim of what dates am item can represent. They claim as early as 1747. Thoughts? Proof? I'm also looking at 2 different pairs of shoes. What are the thoughts and evidence for rough side out or smooth side out leather? Natural color instead of black? My thought was always smooth side out and black, but, I do like the look of the natural color rough side out. Especially if worn with "indian leggings."
Thanks, Dave
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Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990
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Post by Keith on Nov 19, 2019 1:29:13 GMT -7
I am perusing (window shopping as I'm still broke, but I'll call it "researching" for when I'm not) the Fugawee website and have a few basic questions. The 1st I'm sure has been discussed before elsewhere, probably ad nauseum, but I don't feel like sifting through all b.s. on some other forums. How early can the hi-lo boots be considered acceptable? I know better than to trust a vendor's claim of what dates am item can represent. They claim as early as 1747. Thoughts? Proof? I'm also looking at 2 different pairs of shoes. What are the thoughts and evidence for rough side out or smooth side out leather? Natural color instead of black? My thought was always smooth side out and black, but, I do like the look of the natural color rough side out. Especially if worn with "indian leggings." Thanks, Dave thegoodwyfe.blogspot.com/2011/02/startups-andor-cockers.htmlAll I have at present Dave. Keith.
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Post by brokennock on Nov 19, 2019 10:08:55 GMT -7
Thank you Keith. It will be a place to start reading. When I get a chance this evening.
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Post by Black Hand on Nov 19, 2019 11:07:08 GMT -7
Something that might be helpful: I ordered a pair of shoes from Fugawee in 2006 - smooth, lined, black, to be fitted with buckles. What I did find out personally and through reading (unfortunately AFTER having purchased the shoes), is that the toe-box runs a little small. As such, the shoe fits overall (with a thin sock), but seems a bit snug in the toe area. I will likely insert shoe-trees and stretch the toe area (or have them stretched at a shoe-repair shop). Others had suggested buying a pair in a slightly larger size than you usually wear (fit could easily be adjusted with the sock thickness and a little judicious stretching, as needed).
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Post by spence on Nov 19, 2019 12:32:51 GMT -7
Brokennock said: "How early can the hi-lo boots be considered acceptable? I know better than to trust a vendor's claim of what dates am item can represent. They claim as early as 1747. Thoughts? Proof?"
Modern names given to shoes and boots may very well not be what they were called in the day. I've never seen the term hi-lo. I do find "shoe boots", which could be the same idea, as early as 1750. The term "half boots" was used by Silas Deane in describing the Philadelphia militia in 1775.
And: "What are the thoughts and evidence for rough side out or smooth side out leather?"
I've never found any indication of rough or smooth side out in the literature. The only clue is an ad in 1742 for "famous British Liquid Blacking for shoes and boots" which claims it "gives the Shoe a more beautiful Gloss than when new". There are also ads for 'shoe brushes' and 'blacking ball'. That only means some shoes and boots were smooth side out, no indication what percentage. I also see 'coarse' and 'country made' which could mean rough out, but not necessarily.
I have straight last shoes from Townsend which have served me well for 30 years.
Spence
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Post by brokennock on Nov 20, 2019 0:52:36 GMT -7
I was thinking of provenance more in terms of description and/or paintings than the actual term hi-lo. I guess I had it in my head, for some dumb reason, that the boots of the day would have been pull on boots, like riding boots. All other footwear being shoes or moccasins.
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Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990
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Post by Keith on Nov 20, 2019 0:55:31 GMT -7
This is what I have so far, the fires are not far away, & the smoke is so thick outside I decided to stay indoors & do some research on these hi-low boots. I can find no primary documentation on the hi-low boot, information is conflicting. One source mentions that the hi-low boot was the same as the Blucher boot. Blucher was born in 1740, so doubtful he designed this military boot before 1760. I have a feeling that in fact the Blucher boot was a 19th century military boot. 18th century footwear. The Blucher was a practical, front-laced ankle boot worn by laborers in the eighteenth century, which had popularly been known as the "high-low." After 1817 this style was known as the Blucher and was worn for casual and sport wear. fashion-history.lovetoknow.com/fashion-accessories/bootsBlucher A shoe construction featuring two side flaps of material that are joined across the foot with lacing. www.thewalkingcompany.com.au/lexicon/15These boots to me look closer to what the hi-low is supposed to look like. Keith. www.missouribootandshoe.com/civilian-brogans--shoes.htmlThe blucher is named after the 18th century Prussian field marshal Gebhard Leberecht von Blücher. General von Blücher commissioned a boot with side pieces lapped over the front in an effort to provide his troops with improved footwear. This design was adopted by armies across Europe.[1] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blucher_shoeField Marshal Gebhard Leberecht von Blucher Person Male Born 16/12/1742 Died 12/9/1819 Hi low boots or half boots were first worn as fashionable boots in the early 1800s. Made from silk or wool they laced to above the ankle. Women began to wear low, “half” boots as a practical alternative to delicate slippers in the early nineteenth century but silk hi lows were a popular choice with brides historyofboots.blogspot.com/2009/06/nineteenth-century-boots.htmlBelow are some images of 19th century Blucher style boots, no where as high as the Fugawee hi-low boot. Personally, I would steer clear of the Fugawee style boot until I came across some primary documentation, preferably in the form of a documented extant hi-low boot image. Keith.
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Post by brokennock on Nov 20, 2019 2:11:56 GMT -7
Thank you Keith. What fires?
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Post by Black Hand on Nov 20, 2019 5:55:58 GMT -7
There are wildfires raging near where Keith lives. He has prepared for evacuation if they approach his house too closely. I wish him good fortune!
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Post by brokennock on Nov 20, 2019 9:32:43 GMT -7
Best of luck Keith. I'll be praying for your, and your family's safety.
It is funny how often it is easy to forget you are not in the U.S. I briefly thought you'd moved to Commiefornia. Where mother nature, repeatedly tries to say, "don't live here!" Fires, earthquakes, mudslides, more fires, repeat.
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Post by artificer on Nov 23, 2019 1:26:18 GMT -7
This may be interesting to the discussion? "And in 1705 Robert Beverley wrote of the Virginians: They have their Cloathing of all sorts from England, as Linnen, Woollen, Silk, Hats, and Leather.... The very Furrs that their Hats are made of, perhaps go first from thence; and most of their Hides lie and rot, or are made use of, only for covering dry Goods, in a leaky House. Indeed some few Hides with much Adoe are tann’d, and made into Servents Shoes; but at so careless a rate, that the Planters don’t care to buy them, if they can get others, and sometimes perhaps a better manager than ordinary will vouchsafe to make a pair of Breeches of a Deer-Skin. Nearly a half-century later, as Williamsburg’s era of greatest affluence began, a merchant of Louisa County, Francis Jerdone by name, lamented that “the Virginians have most of their shoemakers in their own families, and have no occasion for any but stuff [i.e., cloth] shoes from Britain.” He referred to members of the well-to-do planter class, who customarily maintained on their plantations one or more skilled workmen. Among these there was almost sure to be included a cordwainer to make and repair the footwear of the plantation “family,” a term that included the slaves. The shoemaker might be a slave himself, or an indentured servant, or a journeyman receiving wages.12 However, Francis Jerdone could just as well have been writing of another kind of Virginia planter, the small farmer who built his own house and barns, made his own crude furniture, coopered his own hogsheads, ground his own corn, sheared his own sheep, and made the family’s shoes while his wife spun and wove their clothing. These small farmers, far outnumbering the great planters, would not have ordered cloth shoes from London, to be sure. But neither would they have ordered very many leather ones, either from England or from Williamsburg shoemakers." Also: ROBERT GILBERT, BOOT and SHOEMAKER, &c. HEREBY acquaints the publick that he has opened shop near the Capitol in Williamsburg, where he intends carrying on his business in all its branches, viz. shoe or channel, calf or buckskin boots, jockey do. and splatterdashes, mens plain, stitched, spring, and wood-heeled, shoes and pumps, calf or dogskin; campaign, single, double, or turned channels, slippers, blue or red turkey, cork soles, galloches; womens leather, stuff, silk, and braided shoes and pumps, slippers, cork soles, galloches, and clogs. As he imports the whole of his materials from Great Britain, where punctual payments are required, he proposes supplying Ladies and Gentlemen with any of the above articles on the most reasonable terms, for ready money. Those who please to favour him with their custom may depend on their work being speedily executed, in the genteelest and newest fashions, and in such a manner as he hopes will merit a continuance of their favours. (Virginia Gazette, June 30, 1768) www.gutenberg.org/files/58293/58293-h/58293-h.htmGus Edited to add: I have not been successful at finding out what was meant by the nomenclature "channels" in the list of shoe and boots.
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Post by artificer on Nov 23, 2019 1:40:06 GMT -7
Sorry, forgot to include these notes above:
"6 pairs of boots at 20/ per pair, and four pairs of boot legs"
"Boot legs" are not commonly seen in reenacting, though they appear to have been somewhat popular to turn shoes into boots in the period, when required.
"Boots (sometimes listed as “ffrench falls”) as well as shoes for men, women, and children were imported from England—and from New England—as well as being made in the colony."
Gus
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Post by Black Hand on Nov 23, 2019 5:36:55 GMT -7
This is the one that has me puzzled...
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Post by brokennock on Nov 23, 2019 9:35:24 GMT -7
This is the one that has me puzzled... It's a hide, so, I guess it can be made into leather. Seems horrid to us now, but we look at our dogs differently than they did I think.
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Post by brokennock on Nov 23, 2019 9:37:48 GMT -7
The "braided shoes," catches my interest as to what they may have been.
As does, more so, "buckskin boots." One could take this to imply some type of high top moccasin but maybe with a sole added?
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