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Post by artificer on May 2, 2020 3:41:54 GMT -7
Gus, I have one of the Kodiak sides and it does not have the imprinted grain. It does seem like an ideal thickness for a shot pouch, but to me it feels heavy for its thickness. But, it seems to have a very soft temper for its weight and thickness. The I made a Raptor style side quiver out of it and I would almost prefer that it be a little stiffer. Maybe I'll make a simple shot pouch out of what I have left and report back. Hi Dave,
Glad to hear there is no imprinted grain on your Kodiak side.
The heaviness you feel is probably due to the oils and wax worked into the leather, compared to no oils/wax in Veg Tanned leather. I noticed it as well when I was first feeling the leather.
Gus
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Post by artificer on May 2, 2020 3:43:37 GMT -7
I have a great deal of sympathy for the first time leather buyer or home craftsman who wants to make their first or occasional Shot Pouch/es and other items for themselves. Been there, done that and made some rather expensive mistakes in years gone by.
OK, the other common leather and perhaps the most common leather folks use for Shot Pouches is "Veg Tanned," or "Vegetable Tanned" or less commonly "Bark Tanned" leather. If you want to dye the leather with period "Vinegaroon Dye" or any other color you like, this is the kind to buy. This leather has a smooth surface on one side and a rough surface on the other. In the period, they generally only dyed the smooth surface that went/goes on the outside of a project and maybe along the edges, though not always the latter by a long shot. This leather is sold in a number of grades and the primary difference is the condition of the smooth side of the leather. The highest grades and thus the most expensive leather is free of blemishes, brands, insect bites and dished or gouged out sections and generally runs close to the same thickness throughout the entire hide. However, the higher price has nothing to do with the tanning process or the "usability" of the leather. There's nothing wrong with buying the most expensive grades of this leather if you want, but I prefer to buy the lower grades after I've inspected the hides in person. I don't care if there is an insect bite on the surface as I can use that leather on the back of the Shot Pouch or an inside divider. If there is a brand in a section of the hide I won't use, then it doesn't matter at all to me, though I don't usually buy a hide with a brand. What I won't take is a hide that has been gouged or thinned or a major surface blemish in the main or center part of the hide.
There is a lot of confusing information on different forums about what Oz.weight/thickness of Veg/Vegetable/Bark Tanned Leather to use for Shot Pouches. I've read debates on the difference between only 1/2 oz. in weights and I just shake my head, because most folks who get into these arguments don't have that much actual experience with buying leather and are often mimicking bad information they have been told or read. Most leather is sold within a full oz. range as the leather won't be the same thickness unless the hide is "skived" or cut to a uniform thickness. That process is available in the higher grades of leather and thus another reason they cost more, but for our use, the variation in thickness doesn't matter that much at all. This is why I always suggest one actually go into a Tandy Store or other Leather Supply store to inspect and get the feel of the leather one is considering and also to closely inspect the surface of the smooth side of the leather.
What I suggest one look for is what Tandy calls their "Craftsman Oak Veg-Tan Sides" and shown in the link below. This is their economy range of leather, but more than good enough for our uses. Go through the piles of both the "2 to 3 oz size" and the "3 to 4 oz." sizes. Personally, I've only ever found one or two of the "2 to 3 oz" hides that was on the larger side of the thickness and I thought good enough for a Shot Pouch. Most of the time I have purchased the "3 to 4 oz" size and look for a hide with the best surface and most useable leather, but also look for one that is sort of in the lower to middle of this thickness range with good "temper" or pliability/flexibility. This may not seem to make much sense until you go to the store and go through a pile of hides to find what you want.
www.tandyleather.com/en/product/craftsman-oak-sides
Tandy's next "step up" is their "Superior Oak Veg-Tan Sides" and the only range I would look at is the "3 to 4 oz" size as there is no thinner size offered. Honestly, though, I've been through these before and I just can't justify the 40 Percent higher price for our uses, because by spending time going through the pile of hides on the less expensive "Craftsman" grade, I've always found what I need.
www.tandyleather.com/en/product/superior-oak-veg-side-3-to-4-oz-1-2-to-1-6-mm
For those who don't know; the cut, straight edge of "Sides" (or 1/2 of a full hide) is from the center of the back of the animal. The closer to the center or straight edge, the better the leather is for straps and belts because the leather doesn't stretch near as much there. The "stretchiest" part of the hide is the "belly" or down at the bottom near the legs. Many if not most sides of leather will make two Shot Pouches, but cut the straps first along the length of the "back" or straight edge. If possible, use the leather closest to the belly for dividers in a pouch or other things where such "stretchiness" doesn't matter.
OK, a little more coming in the next post, but I'll close here so I don't lose the typing.
Gus
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Post by hawkeyes on May 2, 2020 5:27:54 GMT -7
Just one of many I've made over the years. One rule I always use with any leather project is simply cut a small section and proceed to tear it by hand, if you can don't use it. About as complicated as I get.
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Post by artificer on May 3, 2020 7:24:05 GMT -7
OK, a little more on other leathers some may find useful.
I noticed Hawkeyes used a Veg Tanned Strap on the Pouch he showed earlier in this thread and that’s what brought the following to mind.
Sometimes you can find a good piece of leather that isn’t big enough to cut a one piece or two piece strap from along with the other pieces for a pouch or you have leather left over, but not enough for the strap. Or as Hawkeyes did, you need a strap for a bag made from split leather.
Tandy leather sells strips cut in your choice of widths, but in different thicknesses. Some can be used for Pouch Straps, though even the thinnest ones they sell are a bit thick for that purpose. Others can be used for waist belts and other things.
The thinnest strips they sell that might be used for Pouch Straps are called “Lightweight Cowhide Leather Strips 50" (1.3 m)”, though at 4 to 5 oz., they will be thicker than most Pouch Leather. Personally, I always prefer to cut straps from the same weight as the leather I use and since I prefer two piece straps with a buckle, I normally don’t need to buy a separate strip for a Pouch. If this is too thick, you can “skive” or thin the leather, but that is an advanced project to do by hand. Maybe your local Tandy store owner has a Skiving Machine that you can pay to have the leather skived/thinned to match your pouch leather. Not all stores have this capability, but many do, so it is worthwhile to ask to match your leather. The main thing I use these straps for is to make period waist belts. Unfortunately, my local store doesn’t stock this thickness of strip leather anymore, so when I want such a strip, I have to order them. I would not use the thicker strips Tandy Sells for Pouch Straps or Waist belts UNLESS I could get them machine skived in the store for a good price.
www.tandyleather.com/en/product/lightweight-cowhide-leather-strips-50-1-3-m
I have sometimes used “Tandy’s Economy Veg-Strips 48" Long,” BUT most of the time this has been for straps for Militia Cartouche/Cartridge Pouches, which are made from a heavier leather than Shot Pouches. I’ve also used these for period waist belts as well.
www.tandyleather.com/en/product/economy-veg-strips-48-long-2
The last tip for this post usually doesn’t directly involve Shot Pouches, but one might get lucky. About two years ago, I got a tip to check out Tandy’s Craftsman Veg-Tan Single Shoulders. I had seen these before, but never got excited about them. At $40.00 each, they are close to half the price of a side, but I felt did not offer enough useable leather for the money. However, Tandy puts these on sale about four times a year or so I decided to check them out when a sale was on for $30.00 and I was interested in checking out the Oil Tan leathers they offer anyway. The stack of these shoulders was about a foot and a half high and of course I went through almost every one. A small percentage was not good value even at the sale price, however I was surprised some of the pieces were much larger and much nicer than I expected. I picked out Five of them and one was actually thin enough to use for a Shot Pouch and had plenty of leather for a two piece strap and more than enough leather for almost any kind of pouch one could think of, including a divider and welts for a double pouch, if I wished to make one from the piece. As it turned out, a young wife and her Mother were there to buy some leather for the young wife’s and her husband’s crafts. When I overheard her asking about leather her husband needed, I realized one of my Five pieces would be perfect and very affordable for them. Long story short, I explained what the leather was and offered her the piece for her husband. She gladly accepted. So I still walked out of the store with Four pieces and good intel on their Oil Tan Leather, a good day indeed. I see they are now offering the shoulders in thicker sizes that would be great for cartridge pouches aka cartridge boxes with shoulder straps, knife sheaths, holsters etc. So if one is interested, it would behoove them to check in monthly with Tandy, to see when they have these pieces on sale.
www.tandyleather.com/en/product/craftsman-single-shoulders
Gus
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Post by brokennock on May 4, 2020 0:30:55 GMT -7
As much as I might like stopping by my local Tandy Leather and handling things before I buy, I vastly prefer getting the strips for my shoulder slung pouches here, www.zackwhite.com/vegetable-tanned-leather-strips-xl-lengthThey are available in the thinner weights in much longer lengths than from Tandy.
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Post by artificer on May 4, 2020 3:42:49 GMT -7
Good source and the price is right as long as one buys enough to cover the shipping costs. Great choice options! Actually straps made 1/16" less than full width can be real handy when fitting them to buckles.
I have seen that site before, but never ordered anything from them. Have you ordered other leather from them?
Gus
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Post by brokennock on May 4, 2020 5:59:54 GMT -7
Not directly. A friend ordered some items, including a couple straps, when he ordered again I had him order me several. Will have to order more soon.
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