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Post by armando on Apr 4, 2020 6:01:41 GMT -7
I was working on a simple shooting bag from a great pattern brokennock provided (thanks man!) and I got to wondering; I see a lot of bag patterns that incorporate a tab and ring to attach the carry strap to the bag.
Is this a much later development? I've seen documentation from later Fur Trade era bags but not sure how early this style of strap/attachment came around.
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Apr 4, 2020 6:52:14 GMT -7
I was working on a simple shooting bag from a great pattern brokennock provided (thanks man!) and I got to wondering; I see a lot of bag patterns that incorporate a tab and ring to attach the carry strap to the bag. Is this a much later development? I've seen documentation from later Fur Trade era bags but not sure how early this style of strap/attachment came around. Armando, I would refer you to the experts (Spence and Keith for starters!!) but I must say that the ring and loop look never appealed to me. As from the examples I've seen it seems to be one of those cases where a rare piece was found with that attribute and re-enactors may have proliferated it in their reproductions. If you look at Madison Grant's book (of which I wish I had a copy but don't) online, you don't see that attribute on the originals. Thanks for asking the question!! I'm curious as to what others have to add... |
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Post by spence on Apr 4, 2020 7:58:39 GMT -7
I've always been doubtful that rings were used on bags from the 18th century, but there are so very few surviving bags from that period I'm not sure that's warranted. Quite a few years ago on another forum a member posted pictures of a bag which seemed authentic, was marked 1777 and did use rings. You can see pictures of it in this forum, Shooting Accessories, topic "original 1777 bag?". It's hard to tell exactly what that bag was like, but my impression is that the rings were used in connecting the horn to the strap, not in attaching the strap to the bag.
Spence
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Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990 
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Post by Keith on Apr 4, 2020 15:24:03 GMT -7
I have yet to see an 18th century shot pouch using a ring attachment for the carry strap. There were of course iron & brass rings being used on bridles, so they were available, but personally I would avoid using rings for a carry strap attachment. Keep it plain & simple.
Keith.
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Post by brokennock on Apr 4, 2020 23:45:52 GMT -7
Not only haven't I seen any evidence for rings, circular or D, being used in the 18th century to attach a strap to a shot pouch, I don't see a good reason to do so. To do so means more sewing, 2 more attachment points (assuming 2 rings, one at each end of the bag) to have failure potential, and it is more metal to potentially click,clack, or clank when trying to be quite in the woods.
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Post by artificer on Apr 5, 2020 2:41:42 GMT -7
On the other forum, I think it was Stophel who showed a German engraving of 17th century hunter shooting a wheellock and he had a belt pouch with an O and D ring on the straps. Did that tradition come over with some German settlers in the 18th century? I don't know.
There were O and D Rings available in the period to Saddlers for horse tack/equipage. While I think a Shot Pouch with such rings would have been extremely rare to almost non existent, it would seem to me that if any were made at all, someone would most likely have had a Saddler make such a shot pouch. That at least tends to suggest any other person who MAY have had one was a Saddler himself, or perhaps an apprentice or perhaps someone with a familial connection; unless the person ordering the pouch made was at least somewhat well off?
I don't believe they would have cannibalized horse tack to get the rings, rather they repaired bridles and saddles and kept the rings for that purpose.
I favor an over the shoulder Shot Pouch for the period, though it is quite possible there were as many or slightly more belt pouches used in the period. I also favor a period correct buckle for strap length adjustment, even though that may have been somewhat uncommon compared to a single strap. But to me, that's as far as I will go and I don't want any O or D rings until/unless a lot more documentation shows up for them in the 18th century. Actually, even if there was some documentation, I still don't believe I would use the rings.
Gus
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