Question on coat/Jackets

lenapej
City-dweller

Posts: 333

Question on coat/Jackets May 2, 2020 9:39:20 GMT -7 hawkeyes, Keith, and 3 more like this

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Post by lenapej on May 2, 2020 9:39:20 GMT -7

I am in the middle of a little clothing study of the PA & OH country in the 1750-59 time span, and have come across many references of people wearing a jacket and a coat apparently at the same time, and in many different times of the year, here are some examples from runaway adds in the PA Gazette;

HAD ON WHEN HE WENT AWAY...a goof coat, between a dove & ash color, and a very old lightish color jacket...

HAD ON WHEN HE WENT AWAY...new felt hat, a brown & yellow silk and worsted coat, and a blue camblet jacket...

HAD ON WHEN HE WENT AWAY...an old brown coat, and two blue jackets, one of a lighter color than the other...

As I am rather new to 18th century research, please pardon if I ask some dumb questions, but I always thought that for the most part a vest/waistcoat would have been worn with a coat, yet I have seen more references of the above than the waistcoat and coat, although I have seen those references as well, so here are some of my questions.

#1. could the term "jacket" refer to what we know as a waistcoat? I have seen a reference that said, "a jacket without sleeves" but thought that unless specified, it would mean a sleeved garment.

#2. What is the difference between a jacket and a coat? the same as today? a jacket being a lighter garment. Is the garment that I am wearing in this photo a coat or jacket? (no buttons on the sleeves)

#3. Is a sleeved waistcoat & a jacket probably the same thing?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

brokennock
Scout

Posts: 2,199

Question on coat/Jackets May 2, 2020 12:00:56 GMT -7 via mobile lenapej likes this

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Post by brokennock on May 2, 2020 12:00:56 GMT -7

Excellent topic. I have been trying to get to a cut and dry answer on these questions for a while. Especially the what is the difference between a jacket and a coat question.
I'm probably wrong, and/or oversimplifying things, but, I get the impression that a jacket is shorter in length and of closer fit than a coat.

I greatly look forward to some answers and examples that I'm sure will be forthcoming.

ewoaf
City-dweller

Posts: 203

Question on coat/Jackets May 2, 2020 12:23:09 GMT -7 via mobile brokennock and lenapej like this

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Post by ewoaf on May 2, 2020 12:23:09 GMT -7

[quote author="brokennock" source="/post/4877/thread" I get the impression that a jacket is shorter in length and of closer fit than a coat.

I greatly look forward to some answers and examples that I'm sure will be forthcoming. [/quote]

Pretty much. A sleeved weskit can be a jacket as well as an underweskit.

brokennock
Scout

Posts: 2,199

Question on coat/Jackets May 2, 2020 19:56:29 GMT -7 via mobile lenapej likes this

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Post by brokennock on May 2, 2020 19:56:29 GMT -7

In modern terms in thinking if it like this, the jacket is your sport coat or suit jacket and the coat is like the modern overcoat we wear over our suit jacket or sport coat.

Again, I could be wrong, I could be over generalizing and oversimplifying.

Keith
City-dweller

Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.

Posts: 990

Question on coat/Jackets May 2, 2020 21:55:05 GMT -7 brokennock, Sicilianhunter, and 1 more like this

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Post by Keith on May 2, 2020 21:55:05 GMT -7

May 2, 2020 9:39:20 GMT -7 lenapej said:

I am in the middle of a little clothing study of the PA & OH country in the 1750-59 time span, and have come across many references of people wearing a jacket and a coat apparently at the same time, and in many different times of the year, here are some examples from runaway adds in the PA Gazette;

HAD ON WHEN HE WENT AWAY...a goof coat, between a dove & ash color, and a very old lightish color jacket...

HAD ON WHEN HE WENT AWAY...new felt hat, a brown & yellow silk and worsted coat, and a blue camblet jacket...

HAD ON WHEN HE WENT AWAY...an old brown coat, and two blue jackets, one of a lighter color than the other...

As I am rather new to 18th century research, please pardon if I ask some dumb questions, but I always thought that for the most part a vest/waistcoat would have been worn with a coat, yet I have seen more references of the above than the waistcoat and coat, although I have seen those references as well, so here are some of my questions.

#1. could the term "jacket" refer to what we know as a waistcoat? I have seen a reference that said, "a jacket without sleeves" but thought that unless specified, it would mean a sleeved garment.

#2. What is the difference between a jacket and a coat? the same as today? a jacket being a lighter garment. Is the garment that I am wearing in this photo a coat or jacket? (no buttons on the sleeves)

#3. Is a sleeved waistcoat & a jacket probably the same thing?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Jacket. A short, fitted, man's or woman's garment, which extends only slightly below the waist; perhaps to high hip height. Or possibly even a much longer woman's garment—up to knee length—might be called a jacket.

Aubry, Etienne (French). Farewell to the Wet Nurse. 1777. On the Web at the Clark Art Institute Museum Shop. The wet nurse wears a jacket.

people.csail.mit.edu/sfelshin/revwar/glossary.html#j

woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/2015/12/weskit-apologies.html

woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/2009/03/18th-century-under-weskitunder.html

woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/117th-18th-century-underclothing-for.html

(a) Justaucorps

o The ,justaucorps, the 'jacket' of the 18th century suit, hung to the knees. It could be closed along a row of buttons at the front. It had no collar. Each side had large box pleats called "basques" and the back was open from the waist. The sleeves had cuffs, called "buttes de la manche". The pockets had flaps with button-holes matching the buttons sewn on the coat.
woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/2013/01/french-clothing-in-new-world-part-five.html

Gunnister Man's Jacket: nms.scran.ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-190-001-912-C&searchdb=scran&scache=2ejzx50e2c

At one stage I did do some extensive research on underclothing, & found that there was no strict clothing rules in regards as to what was worn in any particular way. A man could for instance wear several jackets or two coats all at the same time. The wearing of more than one shirt or waistcoat was quite common in cold weather. I used this information to formulate what I needed to carry in winter to survive with only one blanket.

NOTE: weskit is a 19th century term used for a waistcoat.
Keith.

I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.
Henry David Thoreau
woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/

lenapej City-dweller Posts: 333	Question on coat/Jackets May 3, 2020 12:47:12 GMT -7 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by lenapej on May 3, 2020 12:47:12 GMT -7 Thank you gentlemen for your comments and links, much appreciated.

artificer
Hunter

Posts: 1,009

Question on coat/Jackets May 4, 2020 4:33:26 GMT -7 Sicilianhunter likes this

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Post by artificer on May 4, 2020 4:33:26 GMT -7

This site also has the original Amish Moor Jacket,

www.gentlemenoffortune.com/Jacket.htm

Common Sailors' Jackets:

"Jackets – since many shore occupations chose to wear trousers or clothing similar to slops, a sailor’s jacket became his most distinctive feature. The variety of jackets available is mind boggling according to period descriptions and illustrations. Early in the century, gray was the preferred color for the short jacket, but by the end of the century, blue had become the color of choice, although brown was still commonly worn. These jackets came in two lengths – waist and hip length. They came single breasted or double breasted and with or without collars. They also came with and without pockets."

www.hmsrichmond.org/sailordress.htm

Gus

spence Hunter Posts: 1,614	Question on coat/Jackets May 4, 2020 7:18:34 GMT -7 Sicilianhunter likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by spence on May 4, 2020 7:18:34 GMT -7 This link shows a great variety of jackets in period art. www.larsdatter.com/18c/mens-jackets.html Spence
	Last Edit: May 4, 2020 8:23:56 GMT -7 by spence Into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.

lenapej City-dweller Posts: 333	Question on coat/Jackets May 9, 2020 5:53:26 GMT -7 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by lenapej on May 9, 2020 5:53:26 GMT -7 Spence and Artificer, thanks for the links, much appreciated.

Post by lenapej on May 2, 2020 9:39:20 GMT -7

Post by brokennock on May 2, 2020 12:00:56 GMT -7

Post by ewoaf on May 2, 2020 12:23:09 GMT -7

Post by brokennock on May 2, 2020 19:56:29 GMT -7

Post by Keith on May 2, 2020 21:55:05 GMT -7

Post by lenapej on May 3, 2020 12:47:12 GMT -7

Post by artificer on May 4, 2020 4:33:26 GMT -7

Post by spence on May 4, 2020 7:18:34 GMT -7

Post by lenapej on May 9, 2020 5:53:26 GMT -7