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Post by Sicilianhunter on Jun 7, 2020 14:20:26 GMT -7
Eyes, I would love to see how that turns out! Do you have a link to that recipe? I haven’t seen dragon’s blood since I left Woodstock!! I’m sure it can be had online No. I think I read it in a Ravenshear book. Eyes, Got you! I found dragons blood on Amazon for a reasonable price.
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Post by artificer on Jun 9, 2020 3:39:04 GMT -7
I will be making some wooden chests patterned off of an 18th C Spanish specimen. They are intended to be prize donations for an upcoming event, if it happens, that will be for participants of a scenario match I am hosting. I was going to keep them simple in construction but don’t want to paint them but rather I wanted to apply a period stain/varnish/finish of some type that would still show off the grain of the wood. Suggestions? How many chests and what size are the chests (height, length width of all the surface area you want to cover) you wish to finish? The BLO/Turpentine/Beeswax finish in the video is traditional only to the early part of the 20th century because the BLO he shows was not made that way until that time. However, it does look like a traditional finish, though. If you wish to use it, I have some tips for you because I've actually used a lot of it. The Traditional finish is Raw linseed oil/turpentine/beeswax OR the linseed oil had period additives like White Lead cooked into it. Ever hear of the dangers of lead paint? Mixing white lead into heated raw linseed oil is much more dangerous, but they didn't figure that out until the later part of the 19th century. There you go. Please do not use raw linseed oil on those chests. I realize I'm goring someone's ox when I mention that, but raw linseed oil is almost useless as a wood finish other than to keep it from drying out too much and becoming brittle and checking/cracking. Raw linseed oil, even when one spends MONTHS applying many coats, does not do a thing to even slow down Water and Water Vapor from going into and out of the wood. The U.S. Forestry Service proved that decades ago. Oil Varnishes were very common traditional finishes, especially for period gun stocks. A common one already mixed today is Birchwood Casey's Tru Oil, which is an excellent gun stock finish, though many people object to how shiny it is. Well, traditional oil varnishes were shiny back then and Cuthbertson recommended such a finish for British Military Arms. Not a problem to "knock back the shine" with Grey Abrasive pads and hard hand rub it to get a "warm glow" to the wood. However, Tru Oil is too expensive to use on chests, IMO. Tung Oil was not unknown in the 18th century thanks to the Oriental Craze of the latter part of the 18th century, but there is almost no documentation the oil was imported in any quantity till the latter part of the 19th century and not grown here until around 1905. However, polymerized Tung Oil LOOKS like a period finish and is pretty good at repelling water and does not mold LIKE Linseed oil can/will. You can buy that and brush it on straight out of the can. Oh, I don't mean Homer Formsby products, as those Tung Oil finishes often have little to no Tung Oil in therm. I can go on and on about traditional and traditional looking finishes, but it takes way too long to type out. However, if you have specific questions, please ask. Gus
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Jun 9, 2020 4:10:11 GMT -7
Artificer The specimen has slightly different dimensions that what I had to come up with due to lumber available. Yesterday, a friend and I got enough material together and hashed out the angles an made up the top and sides to the dome lids. Currently we're figuring out the end cap dimensions and angles and that hard part will be done. The chest should fall out to roughly : 32"L x 15 1/2" W x 14 1/2" H I like you're idea of using Tru Oil but I think the surface area might make that cost prohibitive. It sounds like the polymerized tung oil i s the way to go. however, it for goes accuracy. Is the mold issue that prevalent with the BLO?
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Post by artificer on Jun 9, 2020 5:13:59 GMT -7
Artificer The specimen has slightly different dimensions that what I had to come up with due to lumber available. Yesterday, a friend and I got enough material together and hashed out the angles an made up the top and sides to the dome lids. Currently we're figuring out the end cap dimensions and angles and that hard part will be done. The chest should fall out to roughly : 32"L x 15 1/2" W x 14 1/2" H I like you're idea of using Tru Oil but I think the surface area might make that cost prohibitive. It sounds like the polymerized tung oil i s the way to go. however, it for goes accuracy. Is the mold issue that prevalent with the BLO? Modern BLO is not nearly as sensitive to molding as Raw linseed oil is. Also, the beeswax in the mix really enhances the water resistance and pretty much negates any mold. Are these boxes to be used outside or just inside? Sutherland Welles has both inside and outside Polymerized Tung Oil Fnishes. Here is a link to stores around the country. www.sutherlandwelles.com/partnership-infoGus
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Post by paranger on Jun 9, 2020 5:21:07 GMT -7
I don't remember any mention of waterproofing as a criterion for the chest. Did I miss something?
"To keep it from drying out too much and becoming brittle and checking/cracking" is all I ask of a period wood finish in most applications.
No "ox gored" here, because there is no ox TO gore.
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Post by artificer on Jun 9, 2020 5:43:14 GMT -7
You really can't waterproof wood with anything short of an epoxy finish. Huge difference between water resistant and waterproof. Wax is one of the best things to apply over an oil finish to make it as water resistant as possible. However, once you wax the finish and if one used any kind of coloring agent in the finish or on the wood and the finish is damaged, one almost always has to strip off the old finish and begin anew. That should not be a problem with SicilianHunter's chests, though, as it sounds like he is not going to use any coloring agent on the wood or in the finish.
While water resistance is not as important for a chest that will only ever be used indoors, though it is important to a point, it is much more important should that chest be used in camp or outdoors generally. Outdoor chests or chests used in military camps were often painted as a way to make them more water resistant in the period, though it sounds like SicilianHunter doesn't want paint, as it would mask the wood.
During the period, they often used sacrificial "runners" on the bottoms of boxes or chests that sat on the floor, even on wood floors. Of course if the boxes or chests had legs formed out of extended length sides or some other form of legs, then the sacrificial runners were not needed.
Gus
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Post by artificer on Jun 9, 2020 5:54:33 GMT -7
Sicilianhunter,
Another question if you are going to use the boxes outside. Do you plan on putting carry handles on them? If so, be careful not to have the screws or bolts go in the same "plane" or horizontal alignment, as it will crack the wood if the box is to hold something moderately or really heavy. They knew this in the period and designed the handles to take this into account.
Gus
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Post by Black Hand on Jun 9, 2020 7:08:28 GMT -7
Even if the BLO (in the wax, BLO, Turpentine) is not exactly the same as period BLO, the ultimate finish result would be essentially the same. A better compromise in my book than a modern finish...
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Jun 9, 2020 9:22:52 GMT -7
Artificer The specimen has slightly different dimensions that what I had to come up with due to lumber available. Yesterday, a friend and I got enough material together and hashed out the angles an made up the top and sides to the dome lids. Currently we're figuring out the end cap dimensions and angles and that hard part will be done. The chest should fall out to roughly : 32"L x 15 1/2" W x 14 1/2" H I like you're idea of using Tru Oil but I think the surface area might make that cost prohibitive. It sounds like the polymerized tung oil i s the way to go. however, it for goes accuracy. Is the mold issue that prevalent with the BLO? Modern BLO is not nearly as sensitive to molding as Raw linseed oil is. Also, the beeswax in the mix really enhances the water resistance and pretty much negates any mold. Are these boxes to be used outside or just inside? Sutherland Welles has both inside and outside Polymerized Tung Oil Fnishes. Here is a link to stores around the country. www.sutherlandwelles.com/partnership-infoGus Artificer, They would mainly be for clothing and gear, generally they would be “inside” although they may catch occasional weather if they’re outside a tent when it rains
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Jun 9, 2020 9:27:17 GMT -7
Sicilianhunter, Another question if you are going to use the boxes outside. Do you plan on putting carry handles on them? If so, be careful not to have the screws or bolts go in the same "plane" or horizontal alignment, as it will crack the wood if the box is to hold something moderately or really heavy. They knew this in the period and designed the handles to take this into account. Gus Artificer, Excellent tip! Hadn’t thought of that, so does that mean you would cock the angle of the handle in order to offset whatever you secure it with?
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Jun 9, 2020 9:29:17 GMT -7
I don't remember any mention of waterproofing as a criterion for the chest. Did I miss something? "To keep it from drying out too much and becoming brittle and checking/cracking" is all I ask of a period wood finish in most applications. No "ox gored" here, because there is no ox TO gore. PARanger, I wasn’t looking for waterproofing as much as I just wanted to finish the surface without painting.
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Jun 9, 2020 9:34:31 GMT -7
I don't remember any mention of waterproofing as a criterion for the chest. Did I miss something? "To keep it from drying out too much and becoming brittle and checking/cracking" is all I ask of a period wood finish in most applications. No "ox gored" here, because there is no ox TO gore. PARanger, I wasn’t looking for waterproofing as much as I just wanted to finish the surface without painting. This is the original specimen: www.rubylane.com/item/741898-Cx2e470/18th-Century-Spanish-Colonial-Chest-Dome
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Post by artificer on Jun 9, 2020 9:37:40 GMT -7
Even if the BLO (in the wax, BLO, Turpentine) is not exactly the same as period BLO, the ultimate finish result would be essentially the same. A better compromise in my book than a modern finish... If the chests are going to be used outside/in camp, then a much better traditional finish is going to be either an oil varnish or varnish finish, because it will protect the chests much better.
Gus
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Post by Black Hand on Jun 9, 2020 11:02:45 GMT -7
Paint was a very common surface finish because it was protective. Easiest might be wax - beeswax, a hair dryer and lots of elbow grease.
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Post by artificer on Jun 9, 2020 18:41:16 GMT -7
Not sure if the iron strap reinforcement was done when the chest was made or not, however, it is apparent that chest with all the Iron reinforcement was meant to carry heavy objects and/or valuable objects.
Gus.
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