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Post by armando on Oct 27, 2021 15:10:45 GMT -7
Weather was absolutely beautiful and the woods seemed a’fire with the changing colors Pictures would never do them justice (and though I carry my phone deep in my haversack in handmade elk-hide cover, I want to refrain from messing with it and messing up my 18th-century vibe). Seen some bushytails but they would bust me every time when I moved to swing that LONG rifle barrel their way. I would move slowly, though not quietly enough because of the leaf litter, going from tree sit to tree sit, traveling about 20yds then sitting motionless for 10-15 minutes. The squirrels would move rather close (an easy shot) but even with the foilage still on the trees, as soon as I would shift to bring the muzzle to bear, they would bust me and run to the other side of the tree. With a buddy it would have been much easier (or with my dog) Some notes: - I’m still having issues with the powder in my pan falling out due to the frizzen not seating and sealing over the pan. I though I had figured out the problem but perchance its time to take it to the smith. - I wondered how a squirrel hunter in historical period would have carried his rounds. I didn’t carry my powder in my horn because I’m often attending reenactments or doing historical interpretation where you are not allowed to have powder in your horn. Instead, I made paper rolled cartridges (that we use for shooting blanks) then just patched the balls for loading. I need to work on making rolled cartridges with ball. - Wool leggings get caught on a lot of the thorny stuff. I haven’t gotten around to making buckskin leggings (the two does I’ve harvested in the last couple of years might give me enough hide) but its on my list. - This was only an afternoon jaunt but I can see that bringing along my haversack with other gear would have been cumbersome. Last year’s period squirrel hunt the bag would swing around in front of me or behind me (I ended up sitting on my haversack and breaking my pipe stem). I might want to explore the knapsack. - I need a bigger model shooting bag. The one I made works great for cartridges for reenactment battles but is not roomy enough for all the stuff I want to carry (or should carry to reflect what would have been carried in period). I want to make one but I might have never figured out how to make a gusset so my bags are rather flat and don’t hold much. I want to make it HC enough to pass ALRA scrutiny. I have a book with actual period examples but all seem out of my craftsmanship horizon. I’ll try to address some of these things before my next outing but I know I’ll probably (hopefully) get out before I actually find the time to tackle each issue effectively.
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Post by paranger on Oct 27, 2021 16:28:34 GMT -7
"I want to make one but I might have never figured out how to make a gusset so my bags are rather flat and don’t hold much. I want to make it HC enough to pass ALRA scrutiny. I have a book with actual period examples but all seem out of my craftsmanship horizon."
I have about a dozen bags made up currently, including gusseted and double pouches. All are more or less based on originals. If you would like to pm me and let me know what you want, perhaps I have something to fit the bill.
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Post by armando on Oct 27, 2021 17:06:56 GMT -7
We'll be talking! I will add that to my Xmas list and my wife can get it for me!
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Post by brokennock on Oct 27, 2021 20:18:16 GMT -7
Sounds like a nice outing. Thank you for sharing it with us.
Until you can get your lock worked on, maybe try sealing the pan like you would in the rain. I just rub a little patch/wad lube around the edge when I close it. The lube is about the consistency of chapstick and of some type of fat or oil mixed with enough beeswax to get the consistency I want.
I haven't had too much of a problem with thorns and prickers catching up in my wool leggings. Mine have been through the washer/dryer fulling process a couple times. Also, I have, over time, learned to mostly go around the thicker patches of thorny stuff and mountain laurel. Unless I'm hunting pheasant or partridge, no good comes of trying to go through that stuff.
What are you thinking you need to carry in your shot pouch that makes you feel you need the volume of adding a gusset?
Maybe you need a second horn? One for reenactment that is kept empty and one for hunting? I can't think of a good period way to carry powder for a rifle other than a horn. I don't think metal flasks were common for use with rifles. Some type of leather bag? Seems impractical to pour from.
Regardless of all that. Keep getting out there and having a good time.
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Post by hawkeyes on Oct 28, 2021 6:12:24 GMT -7
Well enjoyed outing! Thank you for sharing. I currently have about twenty squirrel in the deep freeze already this season and the leaves have yet to drop!
My absolute FAVORITE game to pursue, if you can stalk squirrel you can hunt anything! Again thanks for sharing you experience with us.
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Post by paranger on Oct 28, 2021 6:52:18 GMT -7
I think I would agree with Nock about the second horn. Loading from cartridges was not a common occurrence for civilians, and I have yet to see any documentation of a rifleman doing so, though it is obviously theoretically feasible.
To me, if you never load from a horn, you are missing out on a part of the experience. I know all about the "safety nazis" who permanently haunt public events zealously in search of full powderhorns, unsheathed axes, and other such public safety menaces. If you frequently alternate shooting and public events, perhaps a second horn is the easiest solution.
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Post by hawkeyes on Oct 28, 2021 10:23:17 GMT -7
I think I would agree with Nock about the second horn. Loading from cartridges was not a common occurrence for civilians, and I have yet to see any documentation of a rifleman doing so, though it is obviously theoretically feasible. To me, if you never load from a horn, you are missing out on a part of the experience. I know all about the "safety nazis" who permanently haunt public events zealously in search of full powderhorns, unsheathed axes, and other such public safety menaces. If you frequently alternate shooting and public events, perhaps a second horn is the easiest solution. Well said, These are the same folks who couldn't hack a full day amongst the forest in true 18th century style, nor have any I've ever met agreed to one!
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Post by hawkeyes on Oct 28, 2021 13:18:25 GMT -7
Concerning bushy tails I thought this to be appropriate, something I came across...
– Squirrel Hunting Has No Place in the Modern Hunter’s World Fact – Nothing, absolutely nothing is further from the truth than this statement here. Without exception, the best all-round multi-species hunters – no, the best all-round WOODSMAN – I’ve known in my 50 years were, and still are, first and foremost squirrel hunters. As squirrel hunters, these men were shown and learned everything they needed to know in order to become skilled hunters of larger game – patience, persistence, self-discipline, camouflage and stealth.
They learned how to move without being seen, and when the opportunity presented itself, they hit with a single shot what they were aiming at.
They could tell you not only which trees were which but also which trees produced the best mast. And when. Mushrooms, plants, wild berries, tracks, Eastern box turtles; they know it all.
Many could tell you what bird that is simply by the song.
To the squirrel hunter, nothing is more important than time – and they enjoy every single moment of it.
You’ll never see a squirrel hunter sitting under a 100-year-old oak texting his buddies. ‘Nough said.
Couple this with period gear and one's firelock, you've got a hunt and experience to rival any!
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Post by spence on Oct 30, 2021 16:30:49 GMT -7
brokennock said: "What are you thinking you need to carry in your shot pouch that makes you feel you need the volume of adding a gusset?"
The same question occurred to me.
I don't recall ever finding period documentation of any content of a shot pouch except balls, and only very few of those. Of course just because I've never found it may in no way relate to the situation at the time.
If you have documentation for anything else please share it.
Spence
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Post by armando on Oct 31, 2021 4:29:20 GMT -7
brokennock said: "What are you thinking you need to carry in your shot pouch that makes you feel you need the volume of adding a gusset?" The same question occurred to me. I don't recall ever finding period documentation of any content of a shot pouch except balls, and only very few of those. Of course just because I've never found it may in no way relate to the situation at the time. If you have documentation for anything else please share it. Spence I don’t have any direct documentation in front of me but I could almost swear I’ve seen a list of what a woodsman would carry in the shooting pouch somewhere. I’m starting to get better at putting post-its in my books for future reference. I know Mark Baker is not a primary source but I often use his research as a starting point and he lists the contents of his shooting pouches in Pilgrims Journey. For example: loading block, small leather bag with rounds, cows name, extra flints, a priming horn, a screwdriver, A pouch with tow, A bullet mold, a ladle, lead, etc.
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Post by hawkeyes on Oct 31, 2021 6:18:38 GMT -7
Shot for me in the shot pouch and loose ball in the shooting bag. I've personally only fiddled with a loading block once and feel it's not a necessary item, that is for me. Having the ability to reload any quicker with squirrel doesn't matter, you miss and before the smoke even clears they are a ghost and gone. For my .32 squirrel rig I carry only eight ball and a length of ticking material round my shooting bag strap for spit patching. I cut at the muzzle and can start a ball with medium thumb pressure. A good load need not rammed home with nothing but a firm thumb or the bootie end of one's knife. I keep my entire days hunting accoutrements simple as can be. If I absolutely cannot feed my rifle without the item it stays home. Also worth noting my squirrel shooting bag is very small, recreated from an original style bag. Only marginal room for the bare essentials. IMO less is best and less equates to less stress and more enjoyment... Thats what the entire experience is all about!
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Post by spence on Oct 31, 2021 9:05:46 GMT -7
I misspoke when I said, "I don't recall ever finding period documentation of any content of a shot pouch except balls, and only very few of those." What I meant was that I have not found any references to anything other than balls in shot pouches in the 18th century. I do have a couple from early to mid 19th.
Wm. Blane, An Excursion through the United States and Canada, during the Years 1822-3 by an English Gentleman: "Over the shoulder passes another belt, to which is suspended the powder-horn, and the fur-pouch for bullets and wadding."
Alfred Jacob Miller wrote in 1837: “Over his left shoulder and under his right arm hang his buffalo powder-horn, a bullet pouch in which he carries balls, flint, and steel, with other knick-knacks."
Spence
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Post by paranger on Oct 31, 2021 9:32:14 GMT -7
This is one of those debates that I have seen go round and round.
I would assert that, as Spence noted, the primary source evidence suggests that 18th c. bags were more simple in construction and minimalist in their contents. This trend seems to alter as time progresses into the 19th c. The increase in average size of surviving shooting bags over the same time span corroborates this in my mind.
That said, it boils down to a variation in personal preferences as well - then as now.
We have all known folks with more or less of a pack rat gene. I suspect there were some of those folks around then, too.
I will say that for me personally, the more experience I get, the lighter I tend to travel. Just my own observation.
I have read articles by "authorities" in the hobby in popular magazines going so far as to suggest carrying a mainspring vice and spare mainspring everywhere, while inferring somehow that this was a common period practice. Ludicrous.
As most things, it is a question of degrees, and where you comfortably fit on the spectrum.
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Post by spence on Oct 31, 2021 14:24:26 GMT -7
I will say that for me personally, the more experience I get, the lighter I tend to travel. Just my own observation. My experience has been exactly the same. After a lot of trial and error found that I could shoot very good groups and patterns with my smoothbores using tow wadding, so I set up my small double shot pouch, 7"x8", for shooting both ball and shot, and it has been a very good decision for me. I load powder, folded brown paper wad, either shot or bare round ball, more tow. This setup works very nicely for most all my hunting now because I basically use smoothbores for everything. In the photo you see, clockwise, tow and a jack knife to cut it with, turn screw and 1 extra flint, buckeye and recovered round ball for luck, a coil gun worm, two antler measures for shot and ball loads, pan brush and vent pick, brown paper wads on a ring, an old original horn with powder, a ball bag with 3-4 .600" balls, a shot bag with enough #6 shot for 6 loads, and a primer made of the tip of a long gourd. Everything not attached to the strap goes in the bag, no extra powder horn. In wet weather I add a cow's knee. Squirrel, rabbit, deer, turkey or Bigfoot, I'm ready with this simple setup. Spence
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Post by brokennock on Oct 31, 2021 17:13:17 GMT -7
I have seen lists and pictures of original shot pouches and what was found in then. The question has been asked before, and makes sense to me, of, "was everything found IN an extent bag at the time it was found, ACTUALLY CARRIED in that bag when being used?" Could the original owner kept things in the bag while home so those items would not be forgotten when leaving for a hunt or scout, or other action, but then transfered to other means of carriage when taking the field? My belt knife is tied to my bag strap. I don't carry it that way in the woods. But, if I lived alone in a cabin somewhere (wouldn't that be a dream come true) and passed away, would someone not assume I carried it that way.
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