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Post by brokennock on Oct 31, 2021 21:38:49 GMT -7
As the term corn was used at one time for any kernel of grain,,, was the word "cotton" used the same? We so often deny the use of cotton in colonial America,,, then grudgingly attest to its use being "more common than previously thought," at least in the south. Yet, here we have this from, "The Narrative of Mrs. Mary Rowlandson," of her captivity by Indians in 1676,
"I was at this time knitting a pair of cotton stockings for my mistress,"
Thoughts?
I will send screenshots to Hawkeyes to post here. I can not give you an accurate page number as I am reading this as an e-book version of a larger captivity story work by Horace Kephart.
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Post by paranger on Nov 1, 2021 3:42:53 GMT -7
This is another one of those perennial debates. I have personally gone pretty far down this rabbit hole, and I will say again that it very much depends upon context: specific locale, date, and socio-economic status.
In my neck of the woods (Pennsylvania's Cumberland Valley), cotton was rare before the American Revolution and where seen a mark of affluence - as extensively documented by Tandy and Charles Hersh in their book "Cloth and Costume in Cumberland County 1750-1800."
However, I have seen documents attesting to cotton shirts being issued to lowly Canadian milice pre-1700. Spence, I know, has a variety of runaway ads (mostly south of the Mason-Dixon line, as I remember) with slaves and/or indentured servants making off with cotton clothing.
So, back to my first premise: the answer is highly context dependent, and one would be well advised to seek out the primary source evidence from your specifically targeted time, place, and status if considering incorporating cotton clothing in a North American impression before 1800.
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Post by spence on Nov 1, 2021 6:48:11 GMT -7
I've come to think cotton was not as rare as we have been led to believe. I agree that it depends very much on who, where and when, but there are many, many references to it, as these two from Thomas Jefferson:
A letter from Jefferson to Brissot de Warville, Paris, August 16, 1786… ”The four Southernmost states make a great deal of cotton. Their poor are almost entirely clothed in it in winter and summer. In winter they wear shirts of it, and outer clothing of cotton and wool mixed. In Summer their shirts are linnen but the outer clothing cotton. The dress of the women is almost entirely [made of] cotton manufactured by themselves, except the richer class, and even many of these wear a good deal of home-spun cotton. It is as well manufactured as the calicoes of Europe. Those 4. states furnish a great deal of cotton to the states North of them, who cannot make it, as being too cold."
"..As the state of Virginia, of which I am, carries on a household manufactures of cotton to a great extent, as I also do my self, and one of our great embarrassments is the clearing the cotton of the seed, I feel a considerable interest in the success of your invention, for family use." (Letter to Eli Whitney, Nov. 16, 1793, Life and Selected Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Random House.)
A very long but interesting item from Philadelphia about cotton manufacture in 1788, encouraging southern states to grow more:
The Pennsylvania Gazette March 19, 1788 PHILADELPHIA The manufacturing society of this town have at length obtained two complete machines for carding and spinning cotton, one of which cards 40 lb. of cotton per day, and the other spins 50 threads at a time. We feel infinite pleasure in communicating this agreeable intelligence to the public, and we have no doubt, that by application to the society, private persons or companies will be informed how they may be supplied with them. As they are of the greatest consequence to this country, we beg leave to suggest the propriety of gentlemen in every town in the state joining to procure one of each. Five lads of 15 years of age, and a girl of 12, may tend four spinning and one carding machines, which will card and spin 12000 lb. of cotton per annum. We trust these acquisitions will afford immediate employment to our stocking-weavers in Mulberry ward and Germantown. This valuable branch, in which there are above eighty private looms, has been suspended for want of cotton yarn. The duty on hosiery is considerable, which will exceedingly favor the manufacture. It is necessary, however, that our supply of cotton be encreased. The planters of Maryland, Virginia, the Carolinas and Georgia, as wheat, tobacco and rice decline in price from the quantity, will, no doubt, apply to raising this raw material. The price of cotton at this time is from 2s8 to 3s as in quality, by the large quantity. It is with great pleasure we learn, from a correspondent, that the ingenious Artizan, who constructed THE CARDING AND SPINNING MACHINES, though not the original inventor (being only the introducer) is likely to receive A PREMIUM from the Manufacturing Society, besides a generous price for his machines; and that it is highly probable our patriotic legislature will not let his merit pass unrewarded by them. Such liberality must have the happy effect of bringing into Pennsylvania other useful Artizans, Machines and Manufacturing Secrets, which will abundantly repay the little advance of the present moment. On this ground, which supercedes the necessity of manual labour, the manufactures of the United States must succeed. The only doubts which have arisen on the subject heretofore have been from the high price of labor, and the scarcity of hands; but when the work of fifty persons can be done by a man, a boy and a machine, and when the expence of manufacturing thread can be reduced 90 per cent. we find those doubts most happily dissipated. The ingenuity, versatility and enterprize of America will enable her, we confidently trust, to acquire the various secrets and improvements of the old world.
It is earnestly hoped by one of our correspondents, that the southern states will pay the most immediate and the most unremitted attention to the cultivation of COTTON, to which their soil, their climate, and the nature of their population, are all adapted. He adds a particular request, that this little paragraph may be favored with a place in every news-paper to the southward of Pennsylvania. Without cotton, the newly acquired machines will be of no value; with abundance of that raw material, they may perform wonders.
Spence
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Post by brokennock on Nov 1, 2021 7:45:22 GMT -7
I fixed the title. Hadn't noticed that auto-correct had gotten silly.
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Post by brokennock on Nov 1, 2021 7:54:30 GMT -7
Thank you gentlemen. I find most things, if not all, in our endeavors are context dependent to who, when, and where. It is pretty much a given. While what you have both stated and demonstrated is pretty much what I have come to understand as being a little more accurate than the previous stance of little to no cotton in the Colonies, (reached through the generous examples you both and others have generously shared in the past, here and elsewhere) what surprised me here is the time and location. New England in 1676 (100 years before the revolution), and being used to knit stockings. Not for fabric for a lightweight summer shirt or shift, knitting stockings.
It is also interesting how often she is asked to make clothing while in captivity, but is usually paid for it in some small way. Also that it seems that after her initial capture, once she is among King Phillip's people, most of the tribe treats her halfway decently, when in a village or camp for a while. It is the wife of Phillip that she has to stay with that treats her worse than anyone else.
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Post by hawkeyes on Nov 1, 2021 7:57:15 GMT -7
Nock, as requested.
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Post by paranger on Nov 1, 2021 8:55:29 GMT -7
I agree that cotton stockings in New England that early is surprising. It is a good find and an interesting data point. Thanks for sharing!
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Post by spence on Nov 1, 2021 10:18:46 GMT -7
Not only early, but in large quantities and of several materials. The Reverend Andrew Barnaby, in 1760 wrote: “The Germantown thread stockings are in high estimation and the year before last I have been credibly informed there were manufactured in that town alone above 60,000 dozen pairs, their common retail price a dollar per pair." The Pennsylvania Gazette February 4, 1768 RUN away.... wears his own brown hair, tied behind, and cut before; had on, when he went away, a fine broadcloth coat, of a light colour, and broke in the sleeves, an old blue jacket, blue plush breeches, new ozenbrigs shirt, a pair of Germantown stockings, of a lightish colour, The Pennsylvania Gazette September 30, 1772 To be SOLD, by THOMAS BOND, JUNIOR, In his STORE, at the corner of Norris Alley, in Second street, A large an excellent assortment of HOSIERY, consisting of MILLED worsted and milled yarn Germantown stockings, Burnley and Trowbridge site: “In Germantown and Philadelphia prior to 1775 a growing stocking industry employs 150 frames upon which brown & white thread and cotton stockings are made." FYI: when the old boys speak of "thread" this or that, such as stockings, they mean flax. FYI-2: those knitting frames are fascinating machines. Here's a link to a demo of how they worked. www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWfzzfjMa6kSpence
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Post by hawkeyes on Nov 1, 2021 11:37:35 GMT -7
Fabulous exerts gentlemen.
One would be surprised that cotton wasn't just for the wealthy during the period. Believe Washington was given price listings for cotton textiles.
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Post by brokennock on Nov 1, 2021 12:41:41 GMT -7
Absolutely fantastic information. So, if "thread" stockings are flax, and cotton stockings are listed separately, is the cotton more like a yarn or still similar to our cotton thread?
Mrs. Mary Rowlandson does state she was "knitting" the stockings, which makes me think of yarn,,,, but, my knowledge of such things is miniscule.
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Post by spence on Nov 1, 2021 14:19:54 GMT -7
I've always considered the situation with cotton to be an important example of something I think happens far too often in re-enacting. When I got into the hobby more than thirty years ago one of the first things I learned was that cotton was so rare and fine that only the very wealthy could afford it. It just was not worn by the lower classes, and so it couldn't be used in making any of our clothing. That was as near absolute dogma as most any of the 'knowledge' handed down to the newbies. Yet, if we can believe Thomas Jefferson, the exact opposite was true, cotton was the fabric of the of the poor. Rather than only being worn by the rich, the rich seemed to consider it a low-class fabric and only a few of them wore it....."The dress of the women is almost entirely [made of] cotton manufactured by themselves, except the richer class, and even many of these wear a good deal of home-spun cotton." I consider Thomas Jefferson a reasonably credible witness.
This 'truth' we were taught is immortal, will never die. The only competition it has in the lexicon of the hobby is that those poorly made Rupert shot with the curved tail are called swan shot because they look like the neck of a swan.
Spence
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Post by paranger on Nov 1, 2021 14:28:43 GMT -7
I've always considered the situation with cotton to be an important example of something I think happens far too often in re-enacting. When I got into the hobby more than thirty years ago one of the first things I learned was that cotton was so rare and fine that only the very wealthy could afford it. It just was not worn by the lower classes, and so it couldn't be used in making any of our clothing. That was as near absolute dogma as most any of the 'knowledge' handed down to the newbies. Yet, if we can believe Thomas Jefferson, the exact opposite was true, cotton was the fabric of the of the poor. Rather than only being worn by the rich, the rich seemed to consider it a low-class fabric and only a few of them wore it....."The dress of the women is almost entirely [made of] cotton manufactured by themselves, except the richer class, and even many of these wear a good deal of home-spun cotton." I consider Thomas Jefferson a reasonably credible witness. This 'truth' we were taught is immortal, will never die. The only competition it has in the lexicon of the hobby is that those poorly made Rupert shot with the curved tail are called swan shot because they look like the neck of a swan. Spence I fear you may begin to risk overstating your case. Again, that might well have been the case in Virginia, and particularly in the last quarter of the 18th c. or later. To the north and earlier, the "dogma" is well supported by primary sources (probate inventories, deserter descriptions, newspaper ads, store inventories, etc.). So, it all depends on WHO, WHERE, and WHEN. There are just very few homogeneous answers that hold up across multiple ethnic groups throughout 13 colonies over a century span. That is often where such "rules" get us into trouble.
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Post by brokennock on Nov 1, 2021 14:46:42 GMT -7
Could both be true? Average, or homespun, cotton being a fabric for the lower classes, but maybe some fine imported cotton fabric being a luxury for the wealthy in hotter climates?
I do often wonder where many of these "irrefutable truths," come from. The cotton debate, swan shot, surviving guns with carving or even a little engraving only having been showpiece guns lightly used by the wealthy. Why is a community ravenous for primary source information and uncovering as much original information and artifact as possible, so dogmatic about not changing views on the things we think we "know" when updated information comes along?
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Post by paranger on Nov 1, 2021 15:01:00 GMT -7
Could both be true? Average, or homespun, cotton being a fabric for the lower classes, but maybe some fine imported cotton fabric being a luxury for the wealthy in hotter climates? I do often wonder where many of these "irrefutable truths," come from. The cotton debate, swan shot, surviving guns with carving or even a little engraving only having been showpiece guns lightly used by the wealthy. Why is a community ravenous for primary source information and uncovering as much original information and artifact as possible, so dogmatic about not changing views on the things we think we "know" when updated information comes along? One reason is because so few "amateur" historians do quantitative analysis. One example (or even a hundred) is meaningless without knowing what the temporal and geographic bounds and the statistical "n" value is. Quantitative analysis takes a lot of time and effort. The Hersh study I referenced earlier is a prime example. Too often we succumb (and I am including myself here) to the desire to find the "gotcha" that proves the prevailing wisdom wrong, and are equally susceptible to the same over-generalization of our own results as those that we sought to correct. Again, context and numbers tell the story - but take more effort, too. And then there are examples of confirmation bias. We seek to justify a particular piece of kit that we bought or desire to incorporate which runs counter to the "conventional wisdom" and are satisfied with a limited data set to feel justified. If I am honest, I have fallen into these same traps at one time or another in the past, so no judgement implied. BUT, we learn and move forward...
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Post by spence on Nov 1, 2021 16:33:14 GMT -7
paranger said: "I fear you may begin to risk overstating your case." I'm sure you are right, because I'm subject to the same confirmation bias we all are, and I do feel strongly that we have been led down the primrose path by the graybeards about this. It's hard to resist when I see direct contradiction of the idea in primary documentation. Cotton cards were offered for sale by a card maker in Boston in 1746, ledgers from Bridgewater, Mass., detail charges for weaving fustian, a cotton cloth, and hemming a cambrick handkerchief in 1777, various New England inventories list cotton shirts and shifts, gowns, shortgowns and petticoats. I have no doubt that cotton was much more commonly used by all classes of people in Virginia and other southern states than in the northern ones. That works out well for me, because my reenacting is of a poor man and is centered on the Kentucky frontier, at that time part of Virginia. So, I can use some cotton in my kit with a clear conscience. Good discussion. Spence
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