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Post by armando on Mar 4, 2022 15:04:13 GMT -7
OK guys I’m hoping you all can give me some perspective or guesstimation. I want to take a crack at making this shooting bag below. I have a Powderhorn to almost match it (except mine has a ring swivel). My question is: it’s hard to figure out the dimensions of this bag. I have a deer hide that I tanned from last year (making some Vingeroon to dye it) but not sure if my supply will be enough. What do you guys think would be the dimensions of this bag? It’s hard to tell from the picture because I don’t know the size of the horn.  |
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Post by paranger on Mar 4, 2022 15:13:30 GMT -7
Bag sizes, on average, changed over time. Early 18th c. bags tended to be smaller and horns larger than their late 18th / 19th c. counterparts.
I don't know what that pouch dates to (is there any contextual evidence?), but the horn appears large relative to the bag, making me think it may be on the earlier side.
If that assumption is correct, I would suggest no more than 8" x 7" as an average for early documented surviving bags. Given the aspect ratio on this one being markedly rectangular, I would say 8" wide and 6" tall may be a good guess.
FYI, Madison Grant's book The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch offers a good cross-section of bags over time to reference.
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Post by armando on Mar 4, 2022 15:35:01 GMT -7
Bag sizes, on average, changed over time. Early 18th c. bags tended to be smaller and horns larger than their late 18th / 19th c. counterparts. I don't know what that pouch dates to (is there any contextual evidence?), but the horn appears large relative to the bag, making me think it may be on the earlier side. If that assumption is correct, I would suggest no more than 8" x 7" as an average for early documented surviving bags. Given the aspect ratio on this one being markedly rectangular, I would say 8" wide and 6" tall may be a good guess. FYI, Madison Grant's book The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch offers a good cross-section of bags over time to reference. WOW! That is a lot smaller than I would have expected. I wonder if I could fit my bullet bag, tow and bottle of bear oil in there (and maybe my antler priming pouch). |
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Post by armando on Mar 4, 2022 15:46:10 GMT -7
By the way this is the book from which this bag and horn are from  |
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Post by paranger on Mar 4, 2022 16:08:49 GMT -7
By the way this is the book from which this bag and horn are from Looks like a cool book. I am surprised that it doesn't give the dimensions. |
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Post by paranger on Mar 4, 2022 16:14:23 GMT -7
Bag sizes, on average, changed over time. Early 18th c. bags tended to be smaller and horns larger than their late 18th / 19th c. counterparts. I don't know what that pouch dates to (is there any contextual evidence?), but the horn appears large relative to the bag, making me think it may be on the earlier side. If that assumption is correct, I would suggest no more than 8" x 7" as an average for early documented surviving bags. Given the aspect ratio on this one being markedly rectangular, I would say 8" wide and 6" tall may be a good guess. FYI, Madison Grant's book The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch offers a good cross-section of bags over time to reference. WOW! That is a lot smaller than I would have expected. I wonder if I could fit my bullet bag, tow and bottle of bear oil in there (and maybe my antler priming pouch). Yup. That is a pretty common reaction. Lots of folks tend to carry more stuff in their shooting bags than would have been typical of the 18th c. There is a lot of "man purse" syndrome in the hobby. I think you will find that the items you listed will fit handily. I made an Appalachian heart-shaped bag recently that is 7"x 6" and it carries everything I need to feed and maintain my rifle on a hunt. |
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Post by brokennock on Mar 4, 2022 16:29:48 GMT -7
Well, ain't that something.
I had not yet read Paranger's 1st response yet and my initial guess was 6 inches high by about 7 inches wife.
I based this partly by eyeball and partly in comparison to the powder measure. Does the book say how many grains the measure is for? This would give us a better size comparison.
Also, I don't see braintan deerskin as the best option for recreating this bag.
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Post by Black Hand on Mar 4, 2022 19:51:18 GMT -7
Remember that vinegaroon only works on veg-tan leather. You'll need some other dye (like walnut) for braintan.
I also agree with Nock - deerskin is rather thin and doesn't have much body. Might be too floppy for a gun bag.
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Post by armando on Mar 6, 2022 15:56:43 GMT -7
Remember that vinegaroon only works on veg-tan leather. You'll need some other dye (like walnut) for braintan. I also agree with Nock - deerskin is rather thin and doesn't have much body. Might be too floppy for a gun bag. You’re probably right. Of course this one buckskin I did with the “orange bottle” is still kind of stiff and it might work. 😊 Would you guys recommend? Cowhide, pigskin, what oz hide? |
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Post by Black Hand on Mar 6, 2022 16:16:21 GMT -7
You can get the orange out of a Chrometan hide with household bleach. Soak in a bleach/water mix with water rinses between until it becomes the shade you want. Stain with walnut to darken and condition with tallow, lard or something similar. You can get the smooth epidermis off using a hacksaw blade.
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Post by paranger on Mar 6, 2022 16:37:47 GMT -7
Remember that vinegaroon only works on veg-tan leather. You'll need some other dye (like walnut) for braintan. I also agree with Nock - deerskin is rather thin and doesn't have much body. Might be too floppy for a gun bag. You’re probably right. Of course this one buckskin I did with the “orange bottle” is still kind of stiff and it might work. 😊 Would you guys recommend? Cowhide, pigskin, what oz hide? I like veg tanned cowhide in the 4-6 oz range, personally. I had one traditionally bark tanned deer hide that made 2 great bags, but it was definitely unusually thick and probably an exceptional hide, the like I may never see again. |
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Post by brokennock on Mar 6, 2022 17:53:50 GMT -7
I like veg tan cow or goat. I usually go lighter weight than a lot of folks. Usually around 4 ounce. I might go 6 oz if the temper is very supple or for a bag that won't get "turned." For that bag I think a 4 or 5 oz veg tan cow would be ideal.
Don't forget to neutralize your vinagroon. I know not everyone does so, but I recently saw a horror show of a bag self destruction as the leather deteriorated. The only thing that seemed like it could be causing it was the vinagroon that had not been neutralized.
It might not always need to be done, but it can't hurt to do it. As Tony Blauer says, "there is no downside to choosing safety."
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Post by hawkeyes on Mar 6, 2022 18:15:41 GMT -7
Excellent advice on all accounts.
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Post by Black Hand on Mar 6, 2022 18:31:45 GMT -7
Don't forget to neutralize your vinagroon. I know not everyone does so, but I recently saw a horror show of a bag self destruction as the leather deteriorated. The only thing that seemed like it could be causing it was the vinagroon that had not been neutralized. It might not always need to be done, but it can't hurt to do it. As Tony Blauer says, "there is no downside to choosing safety." Acetic acid evaporates quickly and requires no neutralization. Soaking untanned skin in acetic acid will break it down but should have no effect on tanned. I'm guessing the problem was due to poor tannage. |
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Post by brokennock on Mar 6, 2022 19:56:46 GMT -7
Could be.
But, can you think of a bad effect from neutralizing it with a baking soda rinse anyway?
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