Keith
Hunter
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 1,002
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Post by Keith on Jul 13, 2019 18:57:17 GMT -7
Thank you for the link Gus. Keith.
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Post by straekat on Jul 14, 2019 5:03:49 GMT -7
Keith, the item in the link is a French garment called a "gilet", basically it was a short t-shirt like garment that was sleeveless, collar-less vest, without pockets, and buttoned up the front. Typically it was worn under the shirt, and sometimes over it. It is different from the "veste" a longer waistcoat worn only over the shirt, sometimes sleeved. The "gilet" is long enough to cover the top of the pelvic bones and naval area, and does not cover the crotch.
The term "camisole" used in the link is translation issue that can be misleading. Modern women wear a camisole, which is similar in length, but not the same garment worn by 18th century French men.
Charles I who adopted the French "gilet "and "veste" fashions, wore a silk "gilet" under his shirt on the day he was beheaded. The "gilet' never caught on in Britain, although the "veste" did, becoming a "waistcoat" in the process.
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Jul 18, 2019 10:22:55 GMT -7
Keith, the item in the link is a French garment called a "gilet", basically it was a short t-shirt like garment that was sleeveless, collar-less vest, without pockets, and buttoned up the front. Typically it was worn under the shirt, and sometimes over it. It is different from the "veste" a longer waistcoat worn only over the shirt, sometimes sleeved. The "gilet" is long enough to cover the top of the pelvic bones and naval area, and does not cover the crotch.
The term "camisole" used in the link is translation issue that can be misleading. Modern women wear a camisole, which is similar in length, but not the same garment worn by 18th century French men.
Charles I who adopted the French "gilet "and "veste" fashions, wore a silk "gilet" under his shirt on the day he was beheaded. The "gilet' never caught on in Britain, although the "veste" did, becoming a "waistcoat" in the process.
Unrelated to dyeing and undergarments, does anyone have a general amount of yardage that's appropriate for the previously shown Gilgun pattern?
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Post by Black Hand on Jul 18, 2019 12:42:41 GMT -7
Depends on the width of the available cloth, but between 2 and 3 yards. All cotton/linen cloth should be washed and pre-shrunk before cutting & sewing. One can approximate based upon the measurements given in the first image. I also make the body for the shirt in 2 pieces with a seam at the shoulder - this seems to waste less material, but is once again based on the width of the cloth (the selvedge edge is used as the bottom edge of the shirt).
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Jul 18, 2019 14:16:43 GMT -7
Depends on the width of the available cloth, but between 2 and 3 yards. All cotton/linen cloth should be washed and pre-shrunk before cutting & sewing. One can approximate based upon the measurements given in the first image. I also make the body for the shirt in 2 pieces with a seam at the shoulder - this seems to waste less material, but is once again based on the width of the cloth (the selvedge edge is used as the bottom edge of the shirt).[p/quote] Hand, I'm looking at 1/2" blue checked linen fabric that's 58" wide. Its $17 a yard so I'm trying to get only what I needed at that price! Are you is I selveges as hems in effort to keep the shirt neat looking?
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Post by Black Hand on Jul 18, 2019 17:20:43 GMT -7
Using the selvedge as the bottom of the shirt keeps me from having to hem 2 long edges - that is why I set it up that way.
Not knowing what size you are makes it difficult to estimate more accurately. Then again, having a little extra gives you material for patching holes, repairing cuffs/collars, a neck-cloth or a few extra bags to contain your stuff.
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Jul 18, 2019 18:01:18 GMT -7
Using the selvedge as the bottom of the shirt keeps me from having to hem 2 long edges - that is why I set it up that way. Not knowing what size you are makes it difficult to estimate more accurately. Then again, having a little extra gives you material for patching holes, repairing cuffs/collars, a neck-cloth or a few extra bags to contain your stuff. That's why I usually will over purchase on the fabric. I was trying to be conservative because of how expensive it is but you know where being cheap gets you...Want to buy and India musket!? When you ask about size do you mean S,M,L or numbered sizing?
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Post by Black Hand on Jul 18, 2019 19:48:06 GMT -7
I'm a slim 5'7", 150# but wear a Medium or Large shirt because my shoulders are wide.
What might help is that the shoulder seam should fall 2-3" off the natural shoulder line, then everything else goes from there. What makes it more complicated is that the body is wider than the shoulder measurement and the extra is pleated into the collar front & back. The body should be blousy as should the sleeves. I'd measure your shoulder width from joint to joint and add at least 3-4 inches to that for the body width. But then again, you could be built different...
The shirt I show is about 29" wide for the front & back panels, but ~28" after sewing & seaming. From shoulder seam to the selvedge edge at the bottom is about 34" after sewing & seaming.
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Jul 18, 2019 20:48:06 GMT -7
I'll have to measure my shoulders. I'm 6' 195lbs but I have gorilla arms... Where does that lower seam fall out on you? Mid-thigh? Shorter. longer?
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Post by Black Hand on Jul 19, 2019 5:15:25 GMT -7
About a hand's-width above the knee.
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Post by straekat on Jul 19, 2019 10:10:59 GMT -7
My advice is to make the shirt large and roomy, especially so it doesn't bind in the armpits, and isn't too snug in the arms. Keep the cuff and neck bands small enough that they look more in line with the last half of the 18th century instead of the first half of the 19th. If you know what thread buttons are (they look like small life preservers), these are break resistant unlike metal, bone, or other hard buttons. Unless you've made a period shirt before, don't cut the material or start work using the linen until after you've tried making one using the cheapest material you can get your hands on, as a practice piece first.
Breeches were sometimes worn with drawers, but mostly not. Shirts were worn long enough to wear as a night-shirt, and the ends could also be wrapped around the legs and crotch in lieu of underwear and to prevent chaffing if the breeches were wool, or coarse material (osnaburg, etc).
Don't try to make the shirt using the least possible amount of material you -think- you will need. If you haven't made many, an extra amount will be needed if you screw something up, and the excess can always be used to make small bags and many other little things. (A "housewife" or period sewing kit is good to have and doesn't require that much material.) A little extra also means not having to make a second trip to the store to buy a small amount of material that in the long run actually cost you more the second time around (gas money, time spent...).
If you can find photos of period originals on line and also other period garments, you'll notice that many garments have small amount of material spliced into the width of the material. That's because period looms tended to be less than 48" wide, and even smaller. This means the extra wide bolts of 60" wide modern fabrics now let people get away with making garments without having to splice material onto the sides of garment panels.
You don't need to flat-fell the seams or do much more to them other than apply a whip-stich or blanket stitch to the raw edges to avoid unraveling or fraying of cut edges. More than a few period garments were made the same way. Don't worry too much about making your hand stitches small and neat because you can make it to wear, and later go back and work on sewing smaller and neater stitches.
Thread color? It doesn't have to match, although use a natural linen or cotton thread in case you want to die it later. Any polyester thread won't take a dye, or show dirt and stains the cloth used for the shirt (or other garment) will show, and a bright white polyester will always show...almost forever.
Make your shirt with the front and back panels each about 48" wide....you'll be glad you did even though now it might sound too large. The excess material around the stomach and waist won't be affected by weight gain, or adding an extra shirt or two for colder weather. Also, if you wear a waistcoat over the shirt, it will snug up the excess and help create a layering effect that can soak up sweat and help provide insulation in cold or hot weather.
I usually suggest looking around for plain linen table-cloths, and old linen bed-sheets. A normal sized table cloth usually had enough material to make at least one large shirt, and if you find a really large one, might even be able to make two. Used tablecloths turn up at flea markets, Goodwill and Salvation Army stores, etc, and can usually be had for less than $10.
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Post by Black Hand on Jul 19, 2019 11:17:33 GMT -7
Make your shirt with the front and back panels each about 48" wide....you'll be glad you did even though now it might sound too large. I'd base this upon the weight of the material - 48" of light vs heavy linen will make an enormous difference in fit and comfort... Even so, I have plenty of extra room with the panels at 28-30" without the extra bulk.
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Post by straekat on Jul 20, 2019 6:34:30 GMT -7
Make your shirt with the front and back panels each about 48" wide....you'll be glad you did even though now it might sound too large. I'd base this upon the weight of the material - 48" of light vs heavy linen will make an enormous difference in fit and comfort... Even so, I have plenty of extra room with the panels at 28-30" without the extra bulk. BH, Thanks for commenting. I should have proof read what I wrote before posting. 36" wide would be about the maximum width for both panels so the shirt has a drop-sleeve appearance. Wider than that, the body of the shirt would be too large and the sleeves would also look far too short. The image of sleeve seams starting around the elbows comes to mind....
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Post by Black Hand on Jul 31, 2019 20:26:29 GMT -7
Let's talk buttons for shirts. I've usually used bone, but have instructions for thread buttons. Might be something to try on my next shirt. Thoughts?
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Keith
Hunter
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 1,002
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Post by Keith on Jul 31, 2019 22:33:48 GMT -7
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