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Post by lenapej on Mar 22, 2022 16:29:52 GMT -7
A friend of mine was reading James Kenny's journal and came across this term that he did not understand, and neither do I, so I thought I would ask ya'll. Kenny was a trader and was taking in skins and furs from the Indians and talks about " worming" them, any idea what that means? below is from the journal.  |
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Mar 23, 2022 5:28:12 GMT -7
LenapeJ,
This total speculation on my part but what month is that excerpt from?
I am supposing that if it were in the summer months the hide could have parasites that needed to "wormed" out of it before processing it
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Post by Black Hand on Mar 23, 2022 11:48:23 GMT -7
LenapeJ, This total speculation on my part but what month is that excerpt from? I am supposing that if it were in the summer months the hide could have parasites that needed to "wormed" out of it before processing it Not sure if this is the case = ticks would be the most likely and they would die/fall away once the animal is dead & skinned. That said, I'm no closer to the meaning of the term... |
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Post by lenapej on Mar 23, 2022 12:17:04 GMT -7
LenapeJ, This total speculation on my part but what month is that excerpt from? I am supposing that if it were in the summer months the hide could have parasites that needed to "wormed" out of it before processing it Sicilianhunter, Not sure what month it was but my friend said that Kenny mentioned it was warm, I thought it may have something to do with preparing the hides for bailing, storing, or shipping, I have done quite a bit of taxidermy work and as Blackhand mentioned, ticks are the biggest problem, but by the time you get through the tanning process most of that is taken care of, I don't know if maybe fleas would be a problem?? |
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Post by spence on Mar 23, 2022 12:17:46 GMT -7
I can offer no help on what worming was, but it apparently was something commonly associated with processing skins. A most interesting document is the "Waste Book" of the Fort Pitt trading post. Pittsburgh Waste Book, June 19, 1759-June 19, 1760, Volume 1 Pittsburgh Waste Book and Fort Pitt Trading Post Papers, DAR. 1925.03, Darlington Collection, Special Collections Department, University of Pittsburgh In the category of miscellaneous expenses, services paid for, I found four items relating to skins: helping with skins work about skins helping tie skins helping to worm skins ********** If they had said de-worm skins it would have been much easier to understand, don't you agree?  Spence |
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Post by lenapej on Mar 23, 2022 12:25:21 GMT -7
I can offer no help on what worming was, but it apparently was something commonly associated with processing skins. A most interesting document is the "Waste Book" of the Fort Pitt trading post. Pittsburgh Waste Book, June 19, 1759-June 19, 1760, Volume 1 Pittsburgh Waste Book and Fort Pitt Trading Post Papers, DAR. 1925.03, Darlington Collection, Special Collections Department, University of Pittsburgh In the category of miscellaneous expenses, services paid for, I found four items relating to skins: helping with skins work about skins helping tie skins helping to worm skins ********** If they had said de-worm skins it would have been much easier to understand, don't you agree? Spence Spence, I agree, even skinning and fleshing the hide would take care of actual worms that the animal may have had...the search continues. |
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Post by spence on Mar 23, 2022 12:30:36 GMT -7
If "worming" involves real worms and isn't just part of the jargon of the fur trade indicating some process done to the skins, then the worms must have been some kind which would damage the skins. I thought of flies laying their eggs in the flesh on the skins and producing maggots, a kind of worm, and I guess that is a possibility. Would maggots eat on the skins?
Spence
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Post by Black Hand on Mar 23, 2022 13:11:46 GMT -7
Maggots will eat decaying flesh.
In my garage where I store skins (off the animal and spread to dry - NO fleshing), I occasionally see some sort of "worm" (and adult beetle) that will eat the dry skin as well as the remaining dry flesh and fat (seem to primarily target the remaining fat). Maybe these are the "worms" they speak of...?
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coot
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Post by coot on Mar 23, 2022 15:06:16 GMT -7
Could the "worming" (de-worming??) refer to Botfly larva -which look something like small worms?
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Post by Black Hand on Mar 23, 2022 15:36:01 GMT -7
Maybe worming was to remove the dermis from the hide/subcutaneous tissue which contains blood vessels (which could look like worms)...?
Nasty job - no wonder he couldn't find anyone to do it.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Mar 23, 2022 15:53:47 GMT -7
Does the journal tell what kind of hides they were ?
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Keith
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Post by Keith on Mar 23, 2022 21:10:42 GMT -7
A friend of mine was reading James Kenny's journal and came across this term that he did not understand, and neither do I, so I thought I would ask ya'll. Kenny was a trader and was taking in skins and furs from the Indians and talks about " worming" them, any idea what that means? below is from the journal. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> Click on photo to enlarge. When I was living in the Territory, I had a routine I followed in the wet season. When I went hunting for food, my first choice of transport was the 4wd Toyota SWB. If it got bogged, then I returned for the smaller Suzuki 4WD. If that got bogged, then I returned for a horse. On this particular day this is exactly what happened. Fortunately I had not gone far before I sighted a large roo about 50 yards distant. I dropped it with one shot from a .45. When I went to field dress the Roo, I found that the skin was not attached to the body, it was if someone had pumped air between body & skin, I had never had this happen before. Between the skin & the flesh, it was absolutely riddled with worms. I left it lying where it was. Keith. |
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Mar 24, 2022 5:22:37 GMT -7
Spence,
The maggots usually don't eat the skin but any tissue clinging to it is fair game.
Ask me how I know...LOL
However, they are easily brushed off mechanically so if maggots were the problem I would think they would be "wormed" off by a more topical means in the form of a wash possibly herbal or chemical.
I would also think if this was a regular practice that hides that need to be wormed were generally going to produce a poor quality hide and sounds like a desperation move on something more valuable
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Mar 24, 2022 5:25:57 GMT -7
Keith,
I heard a similar story in regards to a feral hog: The hunter shot it and went he and the guide went to recover the kill the hunter was able to see the skin moving from all of the parasites under its skin.
They left it for the scavengers...
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Post by lenapej on Mar 24, 2022 17:48:37 GMT -7
Does the journal tell what kind of hides they were ? I decided to look up the journal and reread some of it to refresh my memory, he does not mention what kind of hides they were, but because he uses the term "skins" and not "furs" I'm guessing they were mostly deer, bear, and maybe a few elk. Here is another quote from the journal that I found interesting. 9th.- "I got some help today to worm the skins that had been wormed before, but as I told them they should have to be wormed soon again. Many of them are spoiled, and it is with great difficulty I can get any help, all are so employed." So they were worming the same skins several times, the reference to some being spoiled seems to indicate that they may not have been fully tanned, maybe just fleshed and salted? maybe that is what wormed means? |
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