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Post by brokennock on Apr 16, 2019 14:22:47 GMT -7
I don't know why I bothered asking this on the other forum, B.H.B. instantly let forth a stream of his useless babble. Grrrrrr!
Based on the answers to one of my other posts I have been looking at the websites posted in response and, overthinking things. I posted the following on the m.l. forum,
"I know it has been discussed before, but usually part of another discussion. If you were to order some leather today to make a pair of eastern center seam moccasins, what would you order? From who? I'm looking at moose and elk leather at various places and there are a lot of options, split, weight, color, grade, and so on. Someone recommended split moose hide, but even that has many options."
Thanks,
Dave
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Post by Black Hand on Apr 16, 2019 15:09:15 GMT -7
Dave, Ultimately it depends on what type of moccasin you want to make. I used a chrome-tanned elk hide to make winter moccasins (top) with bison soles and commercial-tanned cowhide centerseams for my other pair of winter moccasins (bottom):   I've used commercial cowhide for a pair of centerseams and garment-weight cowhide for another pair of centerseams (with wool liners):   Split cowhide for a Plains 3-piece style:  I even made a set of moccasins from automotive chamois:  |
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Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990 
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Post by Keith on Apr 16, 2019 17:22:37 GMT -7
I don't know why I bothered asking this on the other forum, B.H.B. instantly let forth a stream of his useless babble. Grrrrrr! Based on the answers to one of my other posts I have been looking at the websites posted in response and, overthinking things. I posted the following on the m.l. forum, "I know it has been discussed before, but usually part of another discussion. If you were to order some leather today to make a pair of eastern center seam moccasins, what would you order? From who? I'm looking at moose and elk leather at various places and there are a lot of options, split, weight, color, grade, and so on. Someone recommended split moose hide, but even that has many options." Thanks, Dave I have used a variety of different leathers over the past 40 years or so, & I can't say as though one was any better than the other. They all fared very well considering the amount of use & the usual terrain that I wore them in. After reading a period account of sheepskin being used I constructed my latest moccasins from sheepskin, & it works just fine. Not expensive, easy to work with, easy to sew, warm in winter & cool in summer & to date hard wearing providing one adds a tougher leather sole. I added the extra sole because the terrain here is very rocky. Keith.  woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/2011/05/greasing-moccasins.htmlwoodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/2012/07/prolonging-use-of-your-moccasins-on.htmlFootwear Documentation. Sheepskin.
. "We never wore anything only {except} woollen clothes inside and out, and also made footwear from the sheepskins". THE LONDON JOURNAL OF CANADIAN STUDIES 1993 VOLUME 9 63 MUSICAL TRADITIONS OF THE SCOTS IN NEWFOUNDLAND Margaret Bennett, School of Scottish Studies Edinburgh University, U.K. |
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Post by brokennock on Apr 16, 2019 17:36:48 GMT -7
I guess it's the term "commercial tan" that has me uncertain. I also had assumed chrome tan, which is I think what Tandy's "buckskin" is, would be no good. I'm looking at things on this and it's preceding page, furandhide.com/products/categories/leather-elk-and-moose?page=2Thinking "willow" for the color. Doesn't the automotive chamois soak up a lot of moisture from the ground? |
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Post by Black Hand on Apr 16, 2019 19:56:39 GMT -7
I guess it's the term "commercial tan" that has me uncertain. I also had assumed chrome tan, which is I think what Tandy's "buckskin" is, would be no good. I'm looking at things on this and it's preceding page, furandhide.com/products/categories/leather-elk-and-moose?page=2Thinking "willow" for the color. Doesn't the automotive chamois soak up a lot of moisture from the ground? You can bleach the orange out of commercial chrome-tan if needed - the winter moccasins were made from a hide that practically glowed when I got it. The chamois does soak up moisture like a sponge... |
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Post by hawkeyes on Apr 17, 2019 15:30:32 GMT -7
Willow colored, split elk or moose will be all you need, closest thing you'll get to brain tan and moose will be EXTREMELY strong, even when split.
I purchased a few moose hides from centralia that are splits as I know hides and they are marvelous. I don't have access to any animal hide in OH besides bison that is IMO strong enough for my liking. Being I mostly tan my own, doing another bison hide is out of the question... That said, moose when split is about the same thickness as a bison hide that isn't split. Buy yourself some split moose, guarantee you won't be dissatisfied.
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Post by hawkeyes on Apr 17, 2019 15:41:41 GMT -7
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Post by hawkeyes on Apr 18, 2019 10:30:35 GMT -7
Forget to share, pair of deer hide mocs. Have repaired the soles more in one season than two seasons of a pair of elk mocs.  |
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Post by Richard on Jun 6, 2019 19:31:16 GMT -7
Probably goes without saying, but I would think bison would be a PC leather for Eastern Woodland moccasins. There were bison roaming the woods of Pennsylvania and other Eastern States till late in the 18th Century. I have seen several original bison powder horns from Fort Pitt and environs.
Richard/Grumpa
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Post by spence on Jun 7, 2019 7:12:31 GMT -7
I've used chrome tanned elk, sheepskin with wool, and moose, all without any problems. All have held up well and required minimal care. Centerseam from chrome elk, a couple of decades old, the main moccasin I wear, just had to make the first repair.  Moose shoepacks, double sole, worn with felt inner liner.  Sheepskin, added sole of chrome elk, fur inside, worn over other moccasins.  Spence |
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Post by straekat on Jun 7, 2019 7:56:30 GMT -7
I usually wear traditional buckle type shoes, however for use around camp, the idea of Souliers de Bouef has been growing on me. They don't look like they are difficult to make. Any else out there that uses them for camp?
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Post by spence on Jun 7, 2019 8:27:12 GMT -7
I also wear buckle shoes very frequently on my hunts/treks. They have a very different feel, of course, but I enjoy them. Straight last shoes are not a problem, and they definitely protect your feet a bit more. I'm sure they were frequently worn by the old boys on the eastern frontier. Daniel Trabue did so on the Kentucky frontier, 1778-80. While on a hunt he had to run for his life from some Indians:
"The Indians pursued us…..We three men kept together for some time. My shews was wet and too big for me. I kicked them off and went pass them. I thought of the silver buckles that was in them which was worth $6. I turned and reached them. I then looked back. I saw the Indians a coming. I saw one presenting his gun at me perhaps 100 yards off, others of them coming on. I felt bad. I turned to go again. I thought that the 2 men before me was as far before me as the Indians was behind me. I soon catched up with the 2 men, and as I passed them Major Downey said, “Let’s stick together.” I thought, “He did not think of that when I was behind.” I said nothing as their was no time for chatting. I went on ahead, only a few steps before them."
Westward into Kentucky, Daniel Trabue,
Spence
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Post by straekat on Jun 7, 2019 8:33:33 GMT -7
My shoes as straight-last, and getting used to them required wearing them around the house for awhile.
Breaking them in, the use of buckles or ties is a possible thread topic. Anyone want to devote a thread to the subject of period shoes elsewhere?
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Post by spence on Jun 7, 2019 13:33:53 GMT -7
OK, in the clothing forum.  Spence |
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Jun 9, 2019 6:36:19 GMT -7
Spence,
I often wonder over the forest floor who's a faster runner : a man in mocs or a man in shoes.
I can't help but think that its the latter rather than the former.
I've seen Mark Baker's rendition of hoofing it through the woods but I see that as no different than a Hollywood display.
I like to make them, I like the look of them and their different styles but I am painfully (literally) aware of the limitations of mocs.
Nock,
I haven't used Bison or Moose or chamois but I have used deer, elk, cowhide split and garment weight cowhide.
The Elk and deer have always been chrome tanned, I won't use brain tan for mocs just because its too expensive for me until I start to tan enough of my own to make that commitment.
I generally wear one pair inside another with a wool liner inside the inner pair. Elk as the outer, then deer, then wool.
One mistake I would have you avoid should you go this route is that the will need to be slightly larger as you make them from inner to outer mocs.
I believe in sewing on an outer sole I just haven't done it yet.
I won't lie, an insole between the layers somewhere is a life saver on a rocky trail.
BTW, the leather I found the least forgiving as far as stretch was the cowhide split, FYI.
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