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Post by bushfire on Oct 18, 2022 16:06:12 GMT -7
I have the opportunity to buy another GRRW gun. I dont have the money so to buy it I would need to sell a couple of other guns. For that i want to be sure its worth buting. It's a 12G but I'm not too sure on exactly what its meant to be. To my untrained eyes it have the lock of a bess, the plate of a trade gun and I'm not sure what else. Can anyone please give me some direction here?
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Post by bushfire on Oct 18, 2022 16:07:10 GMT -7
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Another ID
Oct 18, 2022 17:02:11 GMT -7
via mobile
Post by paranger on Oct 18, 2022 17:02:11 GMT -7
The lock is definitely a Pedersoli short land bess.
The serpent side plate is English trade gun.
The trigger guard appears to be iron? The wood looks like it might be pretty nice.
I would definitely call it a parts gun. That said, that is a very period correct concept.
If you are looking for a smoothie and the price is right...
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Post by bushfire on Oct 18, 2022 17:15:58 GMT -7
The lock is definitely a Pedersoli short land bess. The serpent side plate is English trade gun. The trigger guard appears to be iron? The wood looks like it might be pretty nice. I would definitely call it a parts gun. That said, that is a very period correct concept. If you are looking for a smoothie and the price is right... Thank you, that's definitely the impression I got but I'm novice to this world. I currently have a Pedersoli Trade gun but since I bought my Fusil de chasse I've never used it. I was thinking of selling the former to fund this. This being a very good deal. It was actually the older gentleman that I bought the fusil off that contacted me regarding it yesterday. We got along well over conversations about the fusil so he's given me first opportunity this time round too. I think some older guys here are just happy to see young people getting into the sport. Blackpowder is a small market in Australia, but of what there is, smoothbores are very sought after and have good resale value. I'm more interested in Colonial French history myself, but I was thinking it would be nice to have another smoothbore in case my sons would like to shoot when they come of age. My eldest is 4 and already likes to pretend to pour powder and ball down the barrel of his toy guns. He's off to a good start!
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Another ID
Oct 18, 2022 19:10:22 GMT -7
via mobile
Post by brokennock on Oct 18, 2022 19:10:22 GMT -7
As long as you still have at least one reliable gun if you sell two to buy this one, and it sounds like you do, then go for it. I wouldn't take a chance on a parts gun with a Pedersoli lock if I had to part with my only reliable flintlock/s to get it.
By my count though, you need at least 3 spares for the upcoming generations, 😉 😆 The youngest will be ready before you want to realize it.
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Post by artificer on Oct 19, 2022 0:35:22 GMT -7
Paranger nailed it.
One thing I might add is historically you would almost certainly would not have seen this gun made up as a parts gun until the AWI at the earliest and more likely Post AWI. This because up until the end of the AWI, we colonists were British Americans and there were strict laws that forbade the display of the King's Cypher (Crown over GR) and Broad Arrow (if the lockplate still shows this, though I can't spot it in the pics) on civilian arms. Either the King's Cypher and/or just the correct type of Broad Arrow showing on the outside of the lock plate meant it was still the King's Property and could get a civilian fined and jailed for having stolen government property.
Even if this arm had been broken here in the colonies before the end of the AWI, the serviceable parts were not authorized to be sold to civilians (even by a Royal Governor), as all broken King's Arms were expected to be returned to the Tower for reuse or surplus sold, at which time the King's Cypher and Broad Arrow would first have been removed from the outside of the lock plate.
Gus
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Post by hawkeyes on Oct 19, 2022 4:42:51 GMT -7
For what it is, looks like a fine piece if the price is right for hunting and shooting. With a firelock like this she'll put meat on the table. When it comes down to it that's what matters, atleast it does for me.
I've never had much experience with Pedersoli locks but I have seen a few on fellow patrons guns and wasn't impressed. I wouldn't let that determine the outcome of the deal though. The figure and curl on the wood looks very nice.
I recently completed an ash stocked gun that isn't historically based on any single piece. I consider it my new down and dirty make it happen woodsgun. If you like the piece and she functions as intended go for it. However if your looking for something more historically accurate Gus has given some good information above.
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Post by artificer on Oct 19, 2022 8:02:24 GMT -7
For what it is, looks like a fine piece if the price is right for hunting and shooting. With a firelock like this she'll put meat on the table. When it comes down to it that's what matters, atleast it does for me.I've never had much experience with Pedersoli locks but I have seen a few on fellow patrons guns and wasn't impressed. I wouldn't let that determine the outcome of the deal though. The figure and curl on the wood looks very nice. I recently completed an ash stocked gun that isn't historically based on any single piece. I consider it my new down and dirty make it happen woodsgun. If you like the piece and she functions as intended go for it. However if your looking for something more historically accurate Gus has given some good information above. Hawkeyes makes good points above, even with a gun made up from parts that doesn't copy any particular style of a known historic gun. I agree that a Pedersoli Brown Bess lock would not be my choice for a trade gun or fowler or sporting arm for an 18th century parts gun, if I were building or having such an arm made today. I'd choose a Chambers or better still - one of Jim Kibler's new locks if I wanted a rounded English Style lock. However, a Pedersoli Brown Bess lock can give long/dependable service AND they can be adjusted for trigger pull weight (by someone who knows what they are doing) to give you a much better feeling trigger. I've owned two Pedersoli Brown Bess's over the years. My first was their Carbine in the mid '70's and I shot it a LOT in competition with both round ball and small shot in Northwest Trade Gun Matches and hunted with it as well. I never won at the Nationals at Friendship with it, but that was due to the heavy trigger I had not yet then learned to fix and I just wasn't as good of a shooter back then. I still placed high enough a few times to challenge the best shots a little, though. (Also, the best shooters had more expensive custom guns they shot.) I also shot it a lot with blanks in reenacting the AWI and War of 1812. All in all, I was pleased with it, but I do wish I had learned to do trigger jobs on them when I shot it in competition. I had to sell my Carbine to get the full length Pedersoli Bess when I began reenacting in the Black Watch in the late '90's. Though they had redesigned the lock with a slightly different mainspring, it too served me well, even with the heavy military trigger pull. By this time I had learned to do trigger jobs on them, but never got around to it as I no longer competed with a Bess. Gus
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Post by artificer on Oct 19, 2022 8:10:00 GMT -7
PS to my post above.
I've seen and worked on a LOT of Pedersoli Brown Bess Locks on reenactor guns and trust me, those guns get a LOT more use (and yes a LOT more abuse by some folks) than many/most civilian arms. Generally they are a very hardy and reliable lock, even before one does things to improve them.
Gus
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Post by paranger on Oct 19, 2022 8:13:07 GMT -7
PS to my post above. I've seen and worked on a LOT of Pedersoli Brown Bess Locks on reenactor guns and trust me, those guns get a LOT more use (and yes a LOT more abuse by some folks) than many/most civilian arms. Generally they are a very hardy and reliable lock, even before one does things to improve them. Gus Agreed: I have one that I bought used and I have had no issues with it
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Post by hawkeyes on Oct 19, 2022 9:15:20 GMT -7
The one production gun I've always wanted though I must admit is a Bess. I do like the way pedersoli re-created them. I've never came across one used though.
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Post by bushfire on Oct 19, 2022 18:29:58 GMT -7
Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm going to call the seller tonight for a chat but he mentioned yesterday that the lock has been hand tuned by the builder.
I have two Ped flintlocks, one is flawless the other...well on the rare occasion it ignites the pan it's fast ignition but igniting the pan is a challenge.
I saw a Ped Bess came up for sale for a good price last week in Aus, I'm more of a Charleville man though when it comes to military arms.
Someday I plan on getting to the states to hunt and visit some historical sites and battlefields. I'm hoping then to pick up a fully custom gun to bring back here. I have a preference for larger calibres, I've always liked the idea of a Chambers Mark Silver in rifled 62 cal or something similar.
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Post by artificer on Oct 19, 2022 21:26:50 GMT -7
Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm going to call the seller tonight for a chat but he mentioned yesterday that the lock has been hand tuned by the builder. I have two Ped flintlocks, one is flawless the other...well on the rare occasion it ignites the pan it's fast ignition but igniting the pan is a challenge. I saw a Ped Bess came up for sale for a good price last week in Aus, I'm more of a Charleville man though when it comes to military arms. Someday I plan on getting to the states to hunt and visit some historical sites and battlefields. I'm hoping then to pick up a fully custom gun to bring back here. I have a preference for larger calibres, I've always liked the idea of a Chambers Mark Silver in rifled 62 cal or something similar. Which lock is giving you a problem and can you describe what happens when it doesn't ignite well? Gus
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Post by bushfire on Oct 20, 2022 2:20:37 GMT -7
Which lock is giving you a problem and can you describe what happens when it doesn't ignite well? Gus It's my Pedersoli Jager. It doesn't spark very well. Of the sparks there are, most to me appear to hit forward of the pan. However this may just be me not seeing it clearly. Not sure if its a soft frizzen or a geometry issue or both.
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Post by hawkeyes on Oct 20, 2022 4:58:51 GMT -7
It's my Pedersoli Jager. It doesn't spark very well. Of the sparks there are, most to me appear to hit forward of the pan. However this may just be me not seeing it clearly. Not sure if its a soft frizzen or a geometry issue or both. Any possibility of posting a few images of the lock in full cock with the flint showing the relative location of the cock to the steel? I'm building my boy a true Jager and the big German lock showers sparks!
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