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Post by armando on Mar 25, 2023 16:44:00 GMT -7
So I'm experimenting with using my Bess loaded with shot for an upcoming small game hunt and am trying to research and experiment with how to carry the extra ingredients (shot, wads)
I'm wondering if there is much documented use of pre-loaded cartridges for shot and how they were used. Did the cartridge incorporate and over-powder wad or were those carried separately (and then the paper became the over-shot wad)?
I've used tow wad for ball before but haven't tried with shot yet.
In the future I might experiment with a shot snake bur for now, mostly just trying to figure out the logistics of what to carry and what to use.
Can you share your own experiences and/or documentation if you've found any.
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Post by Black Hand on Mar 25, 2023 16:55:00 GMT -7
Shot loads are carried in a small split-belly pouch with a small tin of cards. Brown paper tied with linen and greased with deer tallow - powder, thick card, shot load with front nipple cut off and a thin card over the shot. I carry a dozen or so when out in the woods.  |
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Post by brokennock on Mar 25, 2023 17:07:15 GMT -7
I've used two different size leather ball bags full of shot and measured ot out using a powder measure in the field. I've used a small leather bag filled with cane/bamboo tubes filled with premeasured shot and corked. And I've carried a tin (like a sucrets or altoids tin box) full of pre-made shot cups/cartridges. Although I've found no reference that I can recall to the latter, it is my most frequent method. I find measuring shot, and handling a flexible container of same, in the field to be a hassle, and if bird hunting the dog won't always wait for such foolishness after a flush, shot, and (hopefully) a retrieve. I generally carry my cards and felt wads in a tin similar to that mentioned above. And for about a year have been carrying some prelubed balls of "tow" (really shredded sisal rope) and some extra overshot cards in a small leather bag tied to the strap of my shot pouch.  I will try to update this at some point with pics of the tins and bag of shot tubes. I need to sit down and upload a lot of pictures to the hosting site I use. I've been doing it as needed and so when I want something in particular quickly,,,, it probably isn't already there. |
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Post by spence on Mar 25, 2023 17:24:57 GMT -7
The Sportsman’s Companion; or, an Essay on Shooting - By a Gentleman - 1783
Chapter 10 -
Shooting Apparatus recommended, method of loading, and Precautions to use in returning Home.
Of these there are a great variety, and most commonly are chosen more from fancy than for utility; some use spring steel chargers for their shot, I own they are handy and convenient, but, as they weigh almost as much as the shot they contain, I would recommend and prefer the pudding shot bag, with a brass head, and a horn or leather powder horn with a spring top; such as have the spring stopper are best; those with the stopper outside waste and spill the powder. - I disapprove of loading out of the top of the horn, it is both uncertain and dangerous, by the powder clogging between the stopper and the head of the horn, and thereby often admits a greater quantity of powder than you intend, - I will here endeavor to explain my method of loading, and hope that habit will make it both expeditious and safe to such as chuse to practice it: -Being provided then with a powder horn and pudding shot bag, as above described, the former in a pocket on my right side with the cord belonging to it on the left shoulder; my shot bag on the left side slung with its strap on the right shoulder; my bird net fixed pretty high, to avoid catching in the brush and cover, with a certain number of square bits of soft gray paper run through the middle with a thread and sewed to a convenient part on the right breast of my coat; a turnkey and a couple of flints in my pocket. - I first of all, prime, 2dly, fill the head of my horn with powder and empty it into the top of my shot bag, (Which should contain the exact charge I intend, and serve as a measure for powder and shot and be equal to the full of my powder horn top) put my horn, empty the powder in my gun, take one of my square papers for wadding, and ramming it down, I 3rdly, fill my measure with shot, put it in the barrel, take another bit of paper, ram it down, and, returning my measure and rammer, I am ready. All this may, at first, appear complex and tedious, but, by a little practice, will become easy, expeditious and safe: I have invariably loaded in this manner; I found that I was in general, as quick as others. - Many of the best more experienced shots, object to priming first; I cannot see wherein the danger consists, unless it may be supposed to proceed from the heat of the barrel, or something touching the trigger while you are loading. How must it be with the Army, who always prime first, and fire very often so quick, that they can scarcely hold their pieces in their hands, with the heat, yet it’s extraordinary to see one of them going off whilst loading, without some other cause than the heat of the piece. - Bad powder leaving a sulphurous sediment in the breech of the barrel, is a more frequent cause of such accidents. I have often seen a battalion from five to seven hundred men, fire sixty rounds on a field day, without one accident of this nature; though once I saw a whole Grenadier Company’s pouches on fire, by a spark communicating to a broken cartridge in one of the men’s pouches; it was in the instant of firing and the pouch was open. However I shant insist on the propriety or impropriety of priming first or last only insist that priming first is most expeditious; and Gentlemen seldom fire so quick when fowling as to endanger any accident of this kind; - it never happened to myself; - every one’s discretion may guide them in this particular as they please.
If you have a servant, when out shooting, let him carry your shot bag, (those that I have described contain 4lb. some more some less) and you may carry half a dozen steel spring chargers in your waistcoat or jacket pockets, which, being double, will contain twelve charges. Many use cartridges containing both powder and shot. I would recommend you carry a few charges of large shot, No 3 and 4, as many opportunities frequently offer making use of them. - I shall conclude this chapter; by hinting, that the portable pocket bottle, covered with twigs, and the collation of cold meat and bread, or biscuit, are always safe and useful companions, as well as the sportsman’s knife and fork.
It is needless to caution you against carrying your piece home loaded; it is dangerous and should always be guarded against, by either drawing the charge or firing it off.
************
Spence
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Post by spence on Mar 25, 2023 18:06:20 GMT -7
I've experimented with many different loading methods, some involving different carrying methods, but generally I carry my supplies in the same pouches I use for rifles. One double pouch, especially, works when I'm loading with tow or cedar bark, fibers in the back, shot pouch in the front, paper wads attached to the strap. I do have a dedicated shotgunning bag, used mostly when carrying percussion shotgun and modern wads. It works very well, but I prefer the more basic gear.  Spence |
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Post by brokennock on Mar 25, 2023 19:14:34 GMT -7
The Sportsman’s Companion; or, an Essay on Shooting - By a Gentleman - 1783 Chapter 10 - Shooting Apparatus recommended, method of loading, and Precautions to use in returning Home. Of these there are a great variety, and most commonly are chosen more from fancy than for utility; some use spring steel chargers for their shot, I own they are handy and convenient, but, as they weigh almost as much as the shot they contain, I would recommend and prefer the pudding shot bag, with a brass head, and a horn or leather powder horn with a spring top; such as have the spring stopper are best; those with the stopper outside waste and spill the powder. - I disapprove of loading out of the top of the horn, it is both uncertain and dangerous, by the powder clogging between the stopper and the head of the horn, and thereby often admits a greater quantity of powder than you intend, - I will here endeavor to explain my method of loading, and hope that habit will make it both expeditious and safe to such as chuse to practice it: -Being provided then with a powder horn and pudding shot bag, as above described, the former in a pocket on my right side with the cord belonging to it on the left shoulder; my shot bag on the left side slung with its strap on the right shoulder; my bird net fixed pretty high, to avoid catching in the brush and cover, with a certain number of square bits of soft gray paper run through the middle with a thread and sewed to a convenient part on the right breast of my coat; a turnkey and a couple of flints in my pocket. - I first of all, prime, 2dly, fill the head of my horn with powder and empty it into the top of my shot bag, (Which should contain the exact charge I intend, and serve as a measure for powder and shot and be equal to the full of my powder horn top) put my horn, empty the powder in my gun, take one of my square papers for wadding, and ramming it down, I 3rdly, fill my measure with shot, put it in the barrel, take another bit of paper, ram it down, and, returning my measure and rammer, I am ready. All this may, at first, appear complex and tedious, but, by a little practice, will become easy, expeditious and safe: I have invariably loaded in this manner; I found that I was in general, as quick as others. - Many of the best more experienced shots, object to priming first; I cannot see wherein the danger consists, unless it may be supposed to proceed from the heat of the barrel, or something touching the trigger while you are loading. How must it be with the Army, who always prime first, and fire very often so quick, that they can scarcely hold their pieces in their hands, with the heat, yet it’s extraordinary to see one of them going off whilst loading, without some other cause than the heat of the piece. - Bad powder leaving a sulphurous sediment in the breech of the barrel, is a more frequent cause of such accidents. I have often seen a battalion from five to seven hundred men, fire sixty rounds on a field day, without one accident of this nature; though once I saw a whole Grenadier Company’s pouches on fire, by a spark communicating to a broken cartridge in one of the men’s pouches; it was in the instant of firing and the pouch was open. However I shant insist on the propriety or impropriety of priming first or last only insist that priming first is most expeditious; and Gentlemen seldom fire so quick when fowling as to endanger any accident of this kind; - it never happened to myself; - every one’s discretion may guide them in this particular as they please. If you have a servant, when out shooting, let him carry your shot bag, (those that I have described contain 4lb. some more some less) and you may carry half a dozen steel spring chargers in your waistcoat or jacket pockets, which, being double, will contain twelve charges. Many use cartridges containing both powder and shot. I would recommend you carry a few charges of large shot, No 3 and 4, as many opportunities frequently offer making use of them. - I shall conclude this chapter; by hinting, that the portable pocket bottle, covered with twigs, and the collation of cold meat and bread, or biscuit, are always safe and useful companions, as well as the sportsman’s knife and fork. It is needless to caution you against carrying your piece home loaded; it is dangerous and should always be guarded against, by either drawing the charge or firing it off. ************ Spence Thank you very much. |
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Post by Armando Basulto on Mar 28, 2023 6:31:18 GMT -7
Shot loads are carried in a small split-belly pouch with a small tin of cards. Brown paper tied with linen and greased with deer tallow - powder, thick card, shot load with front nipple cut off and a thin card over the shot. I carry a dozen or so when out in the woods. Do you use the paper from cartridge as wad? Do you just ram the whole open cartridge down the bore or pour? |
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Post by Black Hand on Mar 28, 2023 10:55:35 GMT -7
The paper serves as an ersatz shot cup. I get the load into the muzzle, cut off the tied end, place my card and ram it down onto the powder & over powder card.
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Post by brokennock on Mar 28, 2023 16:44:07 GMT -7
I've used these ball bags for shot in the past,  The skinny tube-like one has shot in it at the moment. Enough for a few shots.  Any of these could work though. A lot depends on how many shots you want to be able to carry. (Remember, shot gets heavy quick)  The tethered chargers are 10 grains different, the smaller for powder and the larger for shot. Same with the one across the bottom, one end is 70 grain the other is 80,,,, is. (One of the nice things about bamboo/cane)  This is my usual squirrel and pheasant medicine though. These as reloads plus a load already in the gun is usually more than enough. I have one of those leather CVA shot bags with the wooden spout. Way too much shot, way too heavy and awkward. |
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Post by spence on Mar 28, 2023 16:57:58 GMT -7
Very nicely done, brokennock. It looks like a system which would be handy to use, more than adequate as far as number of shots. You've obviously put quite a bit of thought and effort into it. Nice idea the bamboo with two capacities.
Spence
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Post by brokennock on Mar 28, 2023 17:43:44 GMT -7
Very nicely done, brokennock. It looks like a system which would be handy to use, more than adequate as far as number of shots. You've obviously put quite a bit of thought and effort into it. Nice idea the bamboo with two capacities. Spence Thank you Spence. I've probably overthought a lot of this. Unfortunately I have more time to think about this stuff than I have to act on it. Going to get a little shooting in tomorrow though, and try to get a new guy started. |
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