more hammer confusion

spence
Hunter

Posts: 1,608

more hammer confusion Jun 1, 2023 18:40:34 GMT -7 brokennock, lenapej, and 1 more like this

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Post by spence on Jun 1, 2023 18:40:34 GMT -7

The thread started by bushfire concerning confusion over the period meaning of the terms 'hammer' and 'frizzen' reminded me of another similar problem. What were "gun hammers" in the day? Was that just more of the same confusion bushfire asked about? I've seen current opinions that they were indeed what we call frizzens, with 'gun' added so it would be clear they were speaking of a gun part, not a nail hammer.

Whatever, they were sometimes an imported item, and were often offered for sale in period ads.

The South-Carolina GAZETTE
October 29, 1753
CHARLES-TOWN
B & NEYLE, have just imported, in the Alexander, Capt. Carking, from London.... black Pepper and Spices. F and FF Gun powder, all sorts of Shot and Bullets, very neat fowling Pieces and trading Guns, Pistols, gun Locks, gun Hammers and Worms with sockets, powder flasks, cartouch Boxes, shot and bullet Moulds, bar and [sheet] Lead, silver and mourning hilted Swords, cuteau and sword Belts, sword Blades, fencing Foils…

The South-Carolina GAZETTE
July 4, 1754
ARCHIBALD & RICHARD CHARLES-TOWN HAVE just imported, in the Anne, Capt Elmes, from London ….brass candlesticks, single and double gun powder, bullets and all sorts of Wilson's neat fowling pieces, gun hammers, powder flasks,...

The Pennsylvania Gazette
September 18, 1755
Just imported in the ship Myrtilla, Richard Budden
...fuzees, fowling pieces, gun hammers and screws,....

The SOUTH-CAROLINA GAZETTE
May 6, 1756
CHARLES-TOWN....snuff boxes, shoes and knee buckles, lancets, gun hammers, snuffers, wafers, sealing wax and quills, ink powder....

The South-Carolina GAZETTE
December 8, 1759
….mohair and metal buttons, Wilson 's fowling pieces and brass mounted pistols, powder horns, cartouch boxes, gun hammers, curry-combs and brushes,...

The South-Carolina GAZETTE
June 13, 1761
CHARLES-TOWN
... pinchbeck white metal steel and pewter shoe and knee buckles, large and small powder flasks with springs, steel spurs whole and half hunter, twig whips, spatterdashes, neat light fowling pieces, inferior ditto, socket worms, gun hammers, cartouch boxes, belts and hangers, penknives,...

And in other ways:

The South-Carolina GAZETTE
November 2, 1747
CHARLES-TOWN
FOUND between Charles-Town and the Quarter-House , a parcel of Gun-hammers ....

Does anyone have input which can help us understand the situation with this item?

Spence

Last Edit: Jun 1, 2023 18:42:10 GMT -7 by spence

Into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.

Keith
City-dweller

Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.

Posts: 990

more hammer confusion Jun 1, 2023 20:21:16 GMT -7 coot, paranger, and 1 more like this

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Post by Keith on Jun 1, 2023 20:21:16 GMT -7

The hammer on a flintlock is the steel. This came about because of the earlier Snaphaunce locks having a steel that resembled a flint knapping hammer. The hammer in these quotes could be knapping hammers, gunsmithing hammers or lock hammers.
Keith.

woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-correct-18th-century-term-for-steel.html

Last Edit: Jun 1, 2023 20:32:24 GMT -7 by Keith

I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.
Henry David Thoreau
woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/

spence
Hunter

Posts: 1,608

more hammer confusion Jun 2, 2023 7:40:59 GMT -7 Keith, brokennock, and 1 more like this

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Post by spence on Jun 2, 2023 7:40:59 GMT -7

There is another possibility. They could be speaking of a specific type of tool. The Winterthur Museum in Delaware has an item in their collection which they have labeled as a "gun hammer" and describe as a flintlock tool. To me it looks like a combination vent pick and knapping hammer for tending the flint in the lock. It is made of wrought iron, the head is 0.59" square and 2.28" long, the handle is 5.9" long. it is highly decorated with engraving and filings, and marked with the initials MW and the date 1771 on the sides of the hammer head.

Spence

Into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.

spence
Hunter

Posts: 1,608

more hammer confusion Jun 2, 2023 8:08:10 GMT -7 brokennock and paranger like this

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Post by spence on Jun 2, 2023 8:08:10 GMT -7

It is possible to sharpen the edge of your flint while in the jaws of the cock. There is a learning curve, you need to strike lightly at the proper angle, and you have to support the flint so as to not put stress on the cock, but it is easy and effective once you get the hang of it. I have a small brass knapping hammer, head only 1 1/8" long, which I've used many time to do it. It could be called a 'gun hammer'.

I've seen references to "hammering" the flint which I suppose could be referring to this practice. I'm not sure it would be all that wise to use an iron hammer, though. Maybe that's what happened here...

The Pennsylvania Gazette
April 5, 1750
Annapolis, in Maryland Feb. 14 Some days ago, as a man in Talbot county was hammering the flint of a loaded gun, she went off, and shot an elderly man, who was near him, in one of his thighs, with seven swan shot, in a terrible manner, tho' it is thought he would recover.

Spence

Last Edit: Jun 2, 2023 11:19:11 GMT -7 by spence

Into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.

paranger Moderator Posts: 1,149	more hammer confusion Jun 2, 2023 8:15:22 GMT -7 via mobile brokennock and artificer like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by paranger on Jun 2, 2023 8:15:22 GMT -7 Darwin never sleeps...😁

spence
Hunter

Posts: 1,608

more hammer confusion Jun 2, 2023 11:30:45 GMT -7 brokennock likes this

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Post by spence on Jun 2, 2023 11:30:45 GMT -7

Boy, you are right about that.

Another confusion re hammering is what I've seen described on a couple of forums over the years as a method to knap the flint while in the gun. It's always called "hammering the flint". The description varies...you always hold the frizzen tightly closed and either, 1) go to full cock and trip the trigger, 2) trip the trigger but hold the cock, let it move until it's close to the flint and then let it fall, or, 3) close the flint against the frizzen and just press hard. This is said to knap off a thin line across the edge of the flint, sharpening it. I've never tried this, does anyone know if it works? If so, which method?

Spence

Into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.

brokennock
Scout

Posts: 2,188

more hammer confusion Jun 2, 2023 14:51:29 GMT -7 via mobile paranger likes this

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Post by brokennock on Jun 2, 2023 14:51:29 GMT -7

Jun 2, 2023 11:30:45 GMT -7 spence said:

Boy, you are right about that.

Another confusion re hammering is what I've seen described on a couple of forums over the years as a method to knap the flint while in the gun. It's always called "hammering the flint". The description varies...you always hold the frizzen tightly closed and either, 1) go to full cock and trip the trigger, 2) trip the trigger but hold the cock, let it move until it's close to the flint and then let it fall, or, 3) close the flint against the frizzen and just press hard. This is said to knap off a thin line across the edge of the flint, sharpening it. I've never tried this, does anyone know if it works? If so, which method?

Spence

I've tried the last method with some success but prefer using a small brass hammer as you describe,,,, if, I absolutely have to dress the edge right then and there. I would rather remove the flint and pressure flake the edge or diamond file it.

Keith City-dweller Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain. Posts: 990	more hammer confusion Jun 2, 2023 21:22:59 GMT -7 Richard, artificer, and 1 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Keith on Jun 2, 2023 21:22:59 GMT -7 Using the hammer on your lock to knap the gun flint. Keith.
	I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. Henry David Thoreau woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/

spence
Hunter

Posts: 1,608

more hammer confusion Jun 3, 2023 8:52:34 GMT -7 Keith, brokennock, and 3 more like this

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Post by spence on Jun 3, 2023 8:52:34 GMT -7

Keith, your video reminded me of another way I have sharpened flints while in the cock. I filed a nail with a shallow notch and used it as a sort of punch. You place the nail on the flint edge and tap it with something to pop off flakes.The notch limits the width of the flake removed and with a series of gentle taps along the edge the flint is easily and quickly sharpened.

Spence

Into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.

Black Hand Administrator Posts: 2,064	more hammer confusion Jun 24, 2023 10:40:12 GMT -7 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Black Hand on Jun 24, 2023 10:40:12 GMT -7 IIRC, I tried the frizzen "knapping" method once. I use the spine of my belt knife to knap otherwise...
	"Science is made up of so many things that appear obvious after they are explained." -Pardot Kynes, Imperial Planetologist on Arrakis (Dune)

Post by spence on Jun 1, 2023 18:40:34 GMT -7

Post by Keith on Jun 1, 2023 20:21:16 GMT -7

Post by spence on Jun 2, 2023 7:40:59 GMT -7

Post by spence on Jun 2, 2023 8:08:10 GMT -7

Post by paranger on Jun 2, 2023 8:15:22 GMT -7

Post by spence on Jun 2, 2023 11:30:45 GMT -7

Post by brokennock on Jun 2, 2023 14:51:29 GMT -7

Post by Keith on Jun 2, 2023 21:22:59 GMT -7

Post by spence on Jun 3, 2023 8:52:34 GMT -7

Post by Black Hand on Jun 24, 2023 10:40:12 GMT -7