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Post by brokennock on Apr 30, 2019 21:42:37 GMT -7
Just posted this elsewhere, thought I'd post it here for the day we acquire some newer shooters. Not sure it's in the right subforum but I trust the mods to put it right.
I've been wondering about this for quite a while. Everytime I see folks posting shooting advice to new flintlock shooters.
It seems the 1st thing everyone starts going on about is ignoring the pan flash and all the ways to go about not letting it effect the shooter. So, in essence, the 1st thing everyone makes a big fuss about is the #1 thing we don't want the shooter to notice or think about. Before they've even had an issue with it. This doesn't make sense to me.
There are a lot of good marksmanship reasons to focus on the front sight and to follow through at the shot. A lot of good reasons to dry fire practice. Do we really need to make a fuss about the flash and put it in the shooter's head?
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Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990 
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Post by Keith on May 1, 2019 0:34:54 GMT -7
I totally agree, though I myself have never mentioned this unless asked. Frankly the flash from the pan is not something I ever think about. BUT, some people have mentioned to me in the past that they were put off by the thought of the flash in the pan & that is why they got a percussion gun!
Having spoken to various gun dealers over the years, is seems apparent that many of the second hand muzzle-loaders are traded in because the new owner simply couldn't get the gun to work!!!
So we agree then, no mention unless we are asked first, OR, we tell it like it is & mention that this is just another skill to get used to when using a flintlock, & that it is the better choice.
Good post brokennock.
Keith.
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Post by hawkeyes on May 1, 2019 5:28:23 GMT -7
Fine spot for this topic, mentoring it is!
I personally never give the flash much thought either. IMO as someone who has experience building and shooting flinters exclusively for years I think the most important aspect of shooting flint rifles is acquiring a quality made rifle from the start if one can. That sets the bar for everything else to follow.
I'm very bias towards the cheap production guns and have no reserves in saying it. A cheap flintlock is nothing more than a problem child for the new user, to which they then develop a false notion they all are unreliable and usually give up on the sport.
In short, personally feel the best thing one can do for a new user is to introduce them to what a quality rifle is and should be from the start, at least that's what I do.
If one is familiar with shooting a rifle all the other skills of shooting should transfer over, all that's left is to get them conditioned to handling a flinter! Were the fun begins and never ends!
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Post by waarp8nt on May 1, 2019 19:55:26 GMT -7
It seems the 1st thing everyone starts going on about is ignoring the pan flash and all the ways to go about not letting it effect the shooter. So, in essence, the 1st thing everyone makes a big fuss about is the #1 thing we don't want the shooter to notice or think about. Before they've even had an issue with it. This doesn't make sense to me. There are a lot of good marksmanship reasons to focus on the front sight and to follow through at the shot. A lot of good reasons to dry fire practice. Do we really need to make a fuss about the flash and put it in the shooter's head? Glad you started this thread! In short, personally feel the best thing one can do for a new user is to introduce them to what a quality rifle is and should be from the start, at least that's what I do. If one is familiar with shooting a rifle all the other skills of shooting should transfer over, all that's left is to get them conditioned to handling a flinter! Were the fun begins and never ends! A friend called just last week looking to purchase his first flintlock. First advice to him was simple, decent rifles come at a cost. Once a number was thrown out as to the value of a decent flintlock, he decided we should shoot some evening when the spring rains slow down and I agreed! I first want to say I am not an expert and have limited experience having introduced only a handful of shooters to the flintlock. That being said, I am in agreement not to overwhelm a new shooter by dramatizing the flash in the pan. The shooters I have introduced have fired a firearm, most were avid shooters of modern arms. I do believe in making a new flintlock shooter aware of the flash in the pan, simply explain it is there, but don't fuss or focus on it as though it is the end of the world. Those who have difficulty or think they are having difficulty with the pan flash, I have explained the flash can be worked through and typically good shots can be made of them, if they are willing to keep at it. I have further explained to them, it is like following through on shooting sporting clays, pull the trigger and follow through with the sight picture until ball is discharged. Much to my delight, one of the handful of shooters was an excellent shot with a flintlock. Like mentioned in the quotes above, he puts his focus on the front sight as he is a modern handgun shooter and avid hunter. I'm a little ashamed to say, but he out shot me with my own flintlock rifle on that day. He simply was a natural with flintlocks, others including myself had to work at it. It was not natural for me, not at first. However, I have managed to work through the flash in the pan, it did require focus and practice. |
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Post by brokennock on May 1, 2019 23:43:55 GMT -7
I think Hawkeyes really nailed it when he said, "If one is familiar with shooting a rifle all the other skills of shooting should transfer over."
If one has good shooting fundamentals one most likely won't notice the pan flash to begin with. One should already be focusing on the front sight, intensely. One should be trying for a smooth consistent squeeze of the trigger culminating in the "surprise break." So yes, tell the new shooter to focus on the front sight, and all the other fundamental shooting skills, no need to mention that we are trying to distract then from the flash, too many other good reasons to do all these things. Other good reasons to dry fire, why make a big deal about something we don't want them to think about.
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Post by Black Hand on May 6, 2019 16:00:10 GMT -7
I honestly don't remember seeing the pan flash unless I was specifically looking for it. If you focus on the sights, you don't see it. While hunting, I've never seen the flash when shooting at food. The light from the flash is noticeable when shooting at night, but that isn't a usual shooting condition.
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Post by spence on May 6, 2019 17:52:57 GMT -7
If the shooter new to flintlocks is also new to shooting, doesn't have good fundamentals, then maybe it would be a good idea to let him discover the flash by himself, then offer advice on how to deal with it. I have no idea whether it would easier to solve the problem if he mentioned it first. I sort of doubt it. I never had a problem, I can usually see the little puff of dust when the ball hits the deer, but I had a lifetime of solid fundamentals behind me when I took up flintlocks, so never experienced what a newbie like that does. There is quite a commotion, after all, sound, movement and flash, inches from your eye, so a little anticipatory ducking and dodging in the beginning isn't surprising. If all our shooting was in the dark, I suspect a lot of us would be flinching. Here's the pan ignition of 2 grains 4F Goex in the dark. Notice all the flying sparks.  Spence |
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Post by shotdeer on May 17, 2019 18:09:10 GMT -7
I came late to the party, so, huhum, sorry bout' that. I didn't really notice the pan flash the first maybe 4 times, and then I started noticing it, and lost it again. If I don't think about it, I don't see it. That being said, I seem to do better with the flintlock than the percussion about flinching, although I am more accurate with the percussion. All in all, I guess if you don't think about the flash, it might work out for the better. It just might.
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