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Post by juice jaws on May 16, 2019 14:36:52 GMT -7
How come the Indians East of the Mississippi didn't use horse's very much? I would guess because the distance to travel was far less than out west and horse's would harder to come by. But have never read much about it.
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Post by Black Hand on May 16, 2019 16:43:14 GMT -7
Mountainous terrain in conjunction with thick forests and numerous waterways to travel instead?
Just speculation on my part....
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Post by juicejaws on May 16, 2019 16:46:44 GMT -7
Kind of what I thought, you would think there were be some history on it. Thanks
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Post by hawkeyes on May 16, 2019 16:46:50 GMT -7
Simple, Woodlands and not grasslands and open plains. The terrain is much different and more difficult for a horse to navigate through efficiently.
However they absolutely were used just not as prominent amongst the Eastern tribes as our Western brothers.
I've actually been raised around horses and love them. Riding them through the forest can be challenging at times to say the least here in the East.
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Post by Black Hand on May 16, 2019 16:50:05 GMT -7
I've actually been raised around horses and love them. They make me itchy and sneezy... |
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Post by hawkeyes on May 16, 2019 16:57:18 GMT -7
I've actually been raised around horses and love them. They make me itchy and sneezy... I can attest to that, they do the same to me. However, always pushed through it. We had to put my wifes horse down a few years ago and that was like loosing a child but no more sniffles. |
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Post by Black Hand on May 16, 2019 17:02:56 GMT -7
I'll gladly let a horse carry my gear or game and might even be convinced to ride a horse one day. That said, I'm happy to walk...closer to the ground and not a potential victim for a large prey-animal that can spook (it's a long way to the ground and I'm not as bullet-proof as I once was).
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Post by hawkeyes on May 16, 2019 17:19:47 GMT -7
Big time mountain lion prey! Glad those critters are absent from my neck of the woods. Sprawling with a large kitty cat death machine just doesn't seem like it would end well for horse nor man.
Horses though were very prominent here in the East and through the colonies as one would assume. Certainly for farming and transportation purposes. My brother likely would have more insight on their use amongst the Eastern tribes. They indeed were used but not as effectively as out West obviously. The difference in terrain certainly would be one of the biggest factors. My portion of the Ohio Valley is rather hilly and dense in woodland cover, very difficult for horses in this region. The Shawandase and Miami in my area capitalized on river transportation via canoes as did the vast amount of Eastern tribes. Certainly didn't have to feed a canoe either!
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Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990 
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Post by Keith on May 16, 2019 18:09:12 GMT -7
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Post by juicejaws on May 16, 2019 18:54:51 GMT -7
Big time mountain lion prey! Glad those critters are absent from my neck of the woods. Sprawling with a large kitty cat death machine just doesn't seem like it would end well for horse nor man. Lots of lion here, a few years ago one killed a friends horse. I have seen a dead lion about 150 pounds, that's a big kitty. I figure the dense forest and water ways were the main reason horse's were not use much by the tribes. |
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Post by juicejaws on May 16, 2019 19:02:43 GMT -7
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Post by spence on May 17, 2019 13:13:26 GMT -7
Literature of the time is full of reports of Indians stealing horses, stolen horses being recovered after a skirmish, raids by whites into Indian territory for the purpose of stealing horses, etc. And these were not necessarily all "white" horses, apparently. Writing in his journal, "Sketch of the Early Adventures of William Sudduth in Kentucky", Sudduth wrote of getting an Indian horse, "I got possession of a little Indian mare by giving up my own horse to the person who caught it in case I did not return it, it was fresh and run pretty fast." So, maybe the Native Americans had their own breeds of horses before the whites moved in with theirs.
It apparently is true that some parts of the country were difficult for horses. In 1766 James Smith set out on a journey of discovery with Joshua Horton, Uriah Stone, William Baker and another James Smith. They left western Virginia, crossed the Appalachians and spent 8 months exploring the country between the Ohio and Tennessee rivers, all on horseback. When they reached the mouth of the Tennessee at what is now Paducah, KY, the party decided to cross the Ohio and explore the Illinois country. James Smith had been from home long enough, so he decided to return to Virginia. He said, "I sent my horse with my fellow travelers to the Illinois, as it was difficult to take a horse through the mountains." He then spent the next 3 months walking to Virginia.
And yet, 15 years earlier, the famous Dr. Thomas Walker and his party, all on horseback, explored areas of southeastern Kentucky, and crossed those same mountains in both directions. It was not easy, and his descriptions of their trial and error attempts to get through make interesting reading. Laurel thickets, steep grades, deep rivers, downed timber, snakebitten horses and many other obstacles made it into a nightmare of a trip, apparently. They did get it done, though.
Spence
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Post by Black Hand on May 17, 2019 15:22:06 GMT -7
Excellent reply Spence!
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Post by paranger on Jun 1, 2019 19:12:17 GMT -7
How come the Indians East of the Mississippi didn't use horse's very much? I would guess because the distance to travel was far less than out west and horse's would harder to come by. But have never read much about it. [obr] According to the 1755 Edmund Atkin report to the Board of Trade, he described the Chickasaw as "expert Horsemen (having perhaps the finest breed of Horses in No. America)..." |
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Post by paranger on Jun 4, 2019 6:38:19 GMT -7
PS - I should have mentioned that the Atkin report excerpt above comes from Wilbur Jacobs' excellent annotated reprint of the same. Highly recommended reading, as it amounts to a pre-war assessment of the strengths, characteristics, and perceived loyalties of nearly all tribes known to the English at the time by the knowledgeable Southern Department Indian Superintendent.
Incidentally, there are MANY references there and elsewhere to native use of horses in the East in the 18th c. The documentation of horse stealing on the Appalachian frontier alone is staggering. While the Eastern Woodland tribes may noot have been as thoroughly culturally transformed by horses as the plains Indians due to their nearly sole dependence on buffalo for subsistence, do not underestimate the extensive use of horses for mobility in the East - particularly, it seems to me, in the Southeast.
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