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Post by spence on Jul 1, 2020 19:49:44 GMT -7
I'm trying to find info on a tribe of NAs. I've seen two references to them, both in journals concerning the area around Fort Pitt in about 1760. The first is in the Pittsburgh Waste Book 1759-1760, the second in the Journal of James Kenny 1761-1763 In the waste book they are called the Picts, in Kenny's journal the Picks.
Does anyone have info on them? Called something different in modern times? Extinct?
Spence
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Post by paranger on Jul 2, 2020 8:43:00 GMT -7
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Post by spence on Jul 2, 2020 16:02:53 GMT -7
Thanks. Good reference and a possibility. All the references I've seen to them are in the Fort Pitt area, though, maybe a bit too far east.
Spence
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Post by paranger on Jul 2, 2020 16:45:55 GMT -7
Thanks. Good reference and a possibility. All the references I've seen to them are in the Fort Pitt area, though, maybe a bit too far east. Spence Yeah, I had that thought, too. Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas are a long way from Ft. Pitt, all right. Only connection I could come up with. |
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Post by spence on Jul 4, 2020 10:07:29 GMT -7
In his journal James Kenny mentions Indians called "Picks or Tweetwees." I have still not found info on he Picks/Picts, but Tweetwees, also spelled Twightwees, is a name of the Miami people. The area they were found in the 18th century is appropriate, they could have been around Fort Pitt and known by Kenny.
Spence
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Post by artificer on Jul 5, 2020 11:30:26 GMT -7
In his journal James Kenny mentions Indians called "Picks or Tweetwees." I have still not found info on he Picks/Picts, but Tweetwees, also spelled Twightwees, is a name of the Miami people. The area they were found in the 18th century is appropriate, they could have been around Fort Pitt and known by Kenny. Spence
Do you have any indication whether or not the "Picks" were allied with the French during the FIW or were allied with the British? Not sure if something like that is noted?
Gus
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Post by spence on Jul 5, 2020 13:35:51 GMT -7
If my info that the Picks/Picts/Tweetwees/Twightwees were the Miamis is correct, then they would have been allied with the French.
Spence
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Post by artificer on Jul 5, 2020 18:58:18 GMT -7
If my info that the Picks/Picts/Tweetwees/Twightwees were the Miamis is correct, then they would have been allied with the French. Spence
Well, if they were of the Miami Nation, their disappearance after the FIW is quite explainable, they went home to Indiana. (The reason I knew that was I lived in Indiana for four years and did living history and events at Historic Fort Wayne.)
I was thinking the Susquehannock Tribe was another possibility, but that's only because they last of them still in PA were wiped out in 1763, but that was in Lancaster County, much further to the East. However, it is known some of them escaped west. Still, I can't find anything about them ever being called Picks or Picts.
Gus |
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Post by brokennock on Jul 5, 2020 19:52:50 GMT -7
Could the use of "picts" be a reference, or comparative statement, to the "picts" of Roman times?
"Picts was the name which the Romans gave to a confederation of tribes living beyond the reach of their empire, north of the Forth and Clyde. ... Hence a myth that the Picts were given Irish wives, on condition that they became matrilineal"
- "the truth about the picts" The Independent.
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Post by spence on Jul 5, 2020 21:15:30 GMT -7
Of course that's what pops into your mind, but I don't think so. In the Pittsburgh Waste Book 1759-1760 the traders just entered the tribe of the Indian bringing furs to trade, Picts along with about 10 others. In Kenny's journal 1761-1763 he just casually mentions the Picks in describing activities at the trading post and fort, no different than all the other more familiar tribes.
Spence
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Post by lenapej on Jul 6, 2020 14:55:31 GMT -7
It seems to me I read that the Picks may have been a northern tribe/band such as the Wyandotte, etc, but not sure, I will try to do some digging when I get the time.
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Post by armando on Jul 18, 2020 12:57:19 GMT -7
Interesting.
Possibly unrelated but the great fiction pulp writer Robert E. Howard had a race called the Picts in his fictional world (that of Conan the Barbarian) that were Native American (not the blue-woad painted ancient people of Europe that we come to think of). I wonder if he had done some research about this when creating his world (like Tolkien did when crafting Middle Earth).
Slightly off topic but sometimes might lead down a fun research rabbit-hole.
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Post by lenapej on Jul 21, 2020 18:36:57 GMT -7
I believe we found an answer for who the Picks/Picts were.
James Wickes Taylor in his book, History of the State of Ohio, said the Miamis were a numerous tribe with one of the bands being called the Piques.
In the Narrative of John Slover he said. "I was taken (captive) from the New River in Virginia by the Miami, a nation by us called the Picts"
Kenny called them Picks, all three words, though spelled different, sound the same.
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Post by brokennock on Jul 22, 2020 1:56:21 GMT -7
I believe we found an answer for who the Picks/Picts were. James Wickes Taylor in his book, History of the State of Ohio, said the Miamis were a numerous tribe with one of the bands being called the Piques. In the Narrative of John Slover he said. "I was taken (captive) from the New River in Virginia by the Miami, a nation by us called the Picts" Kenny called them Picks, all three words, though spelled different, sound the same. Wow, excellent work. How did you bring it all together? |
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Post by spence on Jul 22, 2020 12:23:30 GMT -7
I think I didn't make myself clear in my July 4 post above. What I was trying to say was that Kenny used the terms Picks and Tweetwees interchangeably, meaning those were two names for the same people. So when I found that the name Tweetwee was another name for the Miamis, that meant that Picks was also. The info posted by lenape leads to the same conclusion, good stuff.
There is another interesting aspect to consider about these references. As I posted originally, the term Picts was used in the Fort Pitt Waste book of 1759-1760, and the term Picks was used by Kenny in his Journal of 1761-1763. Kenny wrote two journals and had two relationships with the trading post at Fort Pitt. In 1758-59 he was overseeing the transportation of trade goods to the post, and from 1761 to 1763 he managed that same trading post at Fort Pitt. Connect the dots and it becomes obvious that both Kenny's connections and the Waste Book are concerned with the same post at Fort Pitt. So, both the mentions of Picts and then Picks were by people at that trading post run by the Commissioners of Indian Affairs at Fort Pitt.
Spence
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