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Post by hawkeyes on Sept 19, 2020 13:11:04 GMT -7
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Post by artificer on Sept 19, 2020 16:56:21 GMT -7
Looks good, Hawkeyes
I assume you use baking soda to neutralize the acid? What strength acid are you using and if I may ask, what is your procedure in using baking soda or lime to neutralize it?
The reason I ask is because over the years, I've seen a fair number of stocks stained with acid and looked good for a while and even up to a few months, then turned green because the acid was not properly neutralized.
Gus
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Staining
Sept 20, 2020 4:30:47 GMT -7
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Post by hawkeyes on Sept 20, 2020 4:30:47 GMT -7
Looks good, Hawkeyes
I assume you use baking soda to neutralize the acid? What strength acid are you using and if I may ask, what is your procedure in using baking soda or lime to neutralize it?
The reason I ask is because over the years, I've seen a fair number of stocks stained with acid and looked good for a while and even up to a few months, then turned green because the acid was not properly neutralized.
Gus Never neutralized. No need at the concentration used. I wet sand once the staining process is complete with water. Never experienced that problem but could see it happening if someone is using full strength acids.
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Post by artificer on Sept 21, 2020 15:49:34 GMT -7
Hawkeyes,
May I ask what concentration of Tannic Acid you are using?
I fully admit I'm more than a bit edgy about using acid or a base to stain or strip stocks without neutralizing either afterwards.
For example, for many years I used oven cleaner to strip stock sets and never had a problem with over 150 stock sets or more because I washed the wood so thoroughly after using it. However, 22 years of it being fine not to neutralize and I ran into one stock set that I must not have neutralized it properly and the stock set turned green about 9 months later. I only realized it because I ran across a guy on the range who bought the rifle with that stock set. When I realized it was a set I had done, I informed the owner I would strip it and neutralize it and re-do the finish for free. He really liked the green color and would not allow me to refinish it, even though I warned him the green color meant the "base" in the oven cleaner was slowly eating the wood. After that, I switched to Acetone to strip most stocks and never looked back, because Acetone leaves NOTHING on or in the wood and does not harm it at all.
When I run across wood I need to strip that is really oil or grease soaked in spots, I will only then use "Purple Power," which is also a very strong base. I wash most of it off with plain water, then give it a diluted coat of White Vinegar, which neutralizes it.
Now of course it is your stock and I'm not trying to tell you what you have to do, but any natural material I use either an acid or base on, will get neutralized before the finish.
Gus
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Staining
Sept 21, 2020 15:59:40 GMT -7
via mobile
Post by hawkeyes on Sept 21, 2020 15:59:40 GMT -7
Hawkeyes,
May I ask what concentration of Tannic Acid you are using?
I fully admit I'm more than a bit edgy about using acid or a base to stain or strip stocks without neutralizing either afterwards.
For example, for many years I used oven cleaner to strip stock sets and never had a problem with over 150 stock sets or more because I washed the wood so thoroughly after using it. However, 22 years of it being fine not to neutralize and I ran into one stock set that I must not have neutralized it properly and the stock set turned green about 9 months later. I only realized it because I ran across a guy on the range who bought the rifle with that stock set. When I realized it was a set I had done, I informed the owner I would strip it and neutralize it and re-do the finish for free. He really liked the green color and would not allow me to refinish it, even though I warned him the green color meant the "base" in the oven cleaner was slowly eating the wood. After that, I switched to Acetone to strip most stocks and never looked back, because Acetone leaves NOTHING on or in the wood and does not harm it at all.
When I run across wood I need to strip that is really oil or grease soaked in spots, I will only then use "Purple Power," which is also a very strong base. I wash most of it off with plain water, then give it a diluted coat of White Vinegar, which neutralizes it.
Now of course it is your stock and I'm not trying to tell you what you have to do, but any natural material I use either an acid or base on, will get neutralized before the finish.
Gus
Just shy under a tablespoon. Haven't had any issues yet, had three over four years old done this way so maybe I'm just... lucky. Never thought of using acetone to strip, thats a good tip! One thing I will not do is stain inlets. I do know tannic acid is very weak in acidity. Must say the sound of using oven cleaner scares me!
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Post by artificer on Sept 21, 2020 22:58:34 GMT -7
Hawkeyes,
May I ask what concentration of Tannic Acid you are using?
I fully admit I'm more than a bit edgy about using acid or a base to stain or strip stocks without neutralizing either afterwards.
For example, for many years I used oven cleaner to strip stock sets and never had a problem with over 150 stock sets or more because I washed the wood so thoroughly after using it. However, 22 years of it being fine not to neutralize and I ran into one stock set that I must not have neutralized it properly and the stock set turned green about 9 months later. I only realized it because I ran across a guy on the range who bought the rifle with that stock set. When I realized it was a set I had done, I informed the owner I would strip it and neutralize it and re-do the finish for free. He really liked the green color and would not allow me to refinish it, even though I warned him the green color meant the "base" in the oven cleaner was slowly eating the wood. After that, I switched to Acetone to strip most stocks and never looked back, because Acetone leaves NOTHING on or in the wood and does not harm it at all.
When I run across wood I need to strip that is really oil or grease soaked in spots, I will only then use "Purple Power," which is also a very strong base. I wash most of it off with plain water, then give it a diluted coat of White Vinegar, which neutralizes it.
Now of course it is your stock and I'm not trying to tell you what you have to do, but any natural material I use either an acid or base on, will get neutralized before the finish.
Gus
Just shy under a tablespoon. Haven't had any issues yet, had three over four years old done this way so maybe I'm just... lucky. Never thought of using acetone to strip, thats a good tip! One thing I will not do is stain inlets. I do know tannic acid is very weak in acidity. Must say the sound of using oven cleaner scares me! Yes, good thing to pass along about not staining the inletted portions of the stock. Best not to use oil or finish under inlets, either. Acetone is a wonderful stripper for gun stocks as it is completely chemically neutral after it evaporates and leaves nothing behind when you use it. It will strip almost any old finish except the epoxy ones and they are not that prevalent on many/most gun stocks we deal with except very modern ones. The only problem with Acetone is that it will evaporate before it goes very deep into the wood, so it will not get deeply soaked oil/grease out of wood. Oven Cleaner was used even a good while before I began stripping stocks in the early 1970's. The Sodium Hydroxide (caustic base) in it was what helped strip some to a good deal of wood that had grease/oil well soaked into the wood. However, the fumes are not good, even in the "low fume" variety. The active ingredient in Purple Power is also Sodium Hydroxide and it may be a stronger solution than in Oven Cleaner, but I'm not sure about that. I only use it nowadays on spots of gun stocks where the grease/oil really soaked in over decades. Gus
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Staining
Sept 22, 2020 3:43:27 GMT -7
via mobile
Post by hawkeyes on Sept 22, 2020 3:43:27 GMT -7
When a refinish came a calling I always turned to Formbys stripper which worked extremely well. I'd always use a vinegar bath to neutralize the chemicals. However, they claim it to be mild on wood. I will say accidently spilling the gel solution on my hands was met with a very quick chemical burning sensation that required prompt removal... I do like the fact it was a gel which was applied with a brush, and usually one application was sufficient to remove old finishes.
Acetone being cheaper and a more stable liquid chemically sounds good. Plus have an abundance of it available for use.
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Post by Black Hand on Sept 22, 2020 14:16:17 GMT -7
Wear chemical-resistant gloves and watch the fumes from acetone.
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Post by artificer on Sept 22, 2020 17:19:15 GMT -7
Wear chemical-resistant gloves and watch the fumes from acetone. That's good advice for any stripper and in my experience, even more so for any of a dozen or so commercial strippers I have used in the past.
I have used the Acetone to strip indoors, but always with a fan blowing the fumes away from me while I stripped. In my experience, that wasn't enough for other commercial strippers.
Gus
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Staining
Sept 23, 2020 2:40:16 GMT -7
via mobile
Post by hawkeyes on Sept 23, 2020 2:40:16 GMT -7
Wear chemical-resistant gloves and watch the fumes from acetone. That's good advice for any stripper and in my experience, even more so for any of a dozen or so commercial strippers I have used in the past.
I have used the Acetone to strip indoors, but always with a fan blowing the fumes away from me while I stripped. In my experience, that wasn't enough for other commercial strippers. [b r] GusAgreed. We use it as a common striper for aircraft use for its stable makeup, as in not very aggressive to most surfaces.
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Post by artificer on Sept 23, 2020 12:42:57 GMT -7
That's good advice for any stripper and in my experience, even more so for any of a dozen or so commercial strippers I have used in the past.
I have used the Acetone to strip indoors, but always with a fan blowing the fumes away from me while I stripped. In my experience, that wasn't enough for other commercial strippers. [b r] Gus Agreed. We use it as a common striper for aircraft use for its stable makeup, as in not very aggressive to most surfaces. I imagine for aircraft use, it also helps tremendously keeping down on HAZMAT materials you already have to deal with?
I think this is an important point for those living in states with tough EPA laws. Back in the late 1980's, I was surprised that even as tough as the CA EPA standards were/are, they also recognize Acetone is chemically neutral. That's actually where I got the idea to use it on gun stock wood, because of it. Since CA EPA standards are as tough or tougher than any other state or federal entity, one can be assured it is not HAZMAT. Of course you still need to be conscious of the fumes as Black Hand mentioned.
Gus
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