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Post by Sicilianhunter on Sept 25, 2020 7:33:28 GMT -7
Determined to finish this project and have this shot pouch ready for use by the time of my upcoming hunt, I became a man POSSESSED, just ask my wife... Looking over the previous Hobbit sized pattern, I still really like the the design it just needed to fit my hands!! I decided I would add 1 1/2” all around to the pattern and that should drop me with the size I was looking for once I turned it. I put my head down, leaned into the task and got on with it. As with the previous design, this pouch had no gusset or interior pocket but did have a divider. I would also go with a button on the strap for adjustment rather than a buckle. When it came to turning it, this time the seams didn’t round out as nicely as before. For those of you who haven’t heard of the” bean trick”, it’s something that folks in the Southwest use to break in cowboy boots. Pour enough beans into the boot to reach ankle height then cover the beans with water and let set overnight. The beans swell as they absorb the water, expanding the leather while it’s wet. I’ve heard of mixed results on boots but I figured that was more of a contained area than a pouch with its flap buttoned. It was worth a try! I filled the pouch with beans and water, put the whole mess in a gallon ziploc bag and left it overnight. It worked well enough to satisfy me and after putting the now hydrated beans on to simmer with some onions, garlic, green chile and bacon, I got back to wrapping up my shot pouch. I tried a new dye blend that was a bit darker than before but still followed BrokenNock’s Ox Blood suggestion, albeit far more sparingly and was happy with the results. All of the pouches I made darkened up considerably after I greasers them. In my case, especially with the more reddish hues I saw this as a blessing. If your desire is in more brighter colors you’ll want to consider that in your plan and do some test batches with your dye mix and then grease the sample to check. All in all, I am always learning from my mistakes and some of those are serendipitous!!
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Post by artificer on Sept 27, 2020 21:07:45 GMT -7
Sicilianhunter,
Enjoyed the three posts. I've got sympathy for the fact things didn't work out at first for you on this pouch and salute you for not giving up until you got what you wanted.
I might be having a senior moment, but did you post this final pouch on the other forum and we discussed it there?
Gus
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Post by paranger on Sept 28, 2020 5:23:08 GMT -7
Well done: looks great! If at first you don't succeed...
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Sept 28, 2020 7:38:08 GMT -7
Gus, Thanks for the compliments!! I didn't post the topic anywhere else
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Sept 28, 2020 7:39:16 GMT -7
Well done: looks great! If at first you don't succeed... PARanger, Thanks !! With the many attempts a success was finally born!! LOL
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Post by brokennock on Sept 28, 2020 11:56:56 GMT -7
I think the others were each a success, nothing really wrong with them, just weren't what you were looking for for yourself.
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Sept 28, 2020 12:50:52 GMT -7
I think the others were each a success, nothing really wrong with them, just weren't what you were looking for for yourself. Nock, I definitely had a bee in my bonnet when the first bag didn’t fit the bill and they weren’t “wrong” but weren’t right for me as you say. In following that path to the end I finally got a bag that met my criteria and I was happy with and also set up my friend with 2 good items that made him happy so bonus there too. As you may have heard me say, No Coincidences!!
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Post by artificer on Sept 29, 2020 5:18:00 GMT -7
Sicilianhunter,
"When it came to turning it, this time the seams didn’t round out as nicely as before."
I think you may be referring to the bottom outside corners of the pouch after you turned it as they are not symmetrical? First of all, there is nothing wrong with your design of the curves on the bottom outside edges. Actually your curve design is very good for turning with the soft curves you cut in each piece. Short of using a wet form for more perfect symmetry and since leather has different "temper" or flexibility throughout the piece, the outer corners looked pretty good to me before you put the wet beans into the pouch. I doubt hardly anyone in the period would have objected, but OK, so is there another way to make the corners more symmetrical? Yes there was/is, but first one has to get used to something that doesn't seem like common sense when working leather.
There should be an old leather working saying that, "A pail, bucket or container full of clean water is the Leather Worker's friend. Feel free to dunk the leather in the water at any time you need to while making something." Have to admit the first couple of times I did that, I didn't feel comfortable. I guess I was concerned something might harm the leather or tanning or work I had already done; which is not true at all. Heck, after watching Eric Myall's 18th century leatherworking videos, I laughed he thinks nothing of dunking the leather before, during or after staining - to achieve what he wants.
OK, so after turning the sewn pouch and the outer corners are not symmetrical, you first need to dunk the pouch into the water for 20 to 30 seconds. Then from the inside of the pouch, you need something rounded to push outward against the seam/s to make the corner/s more symmetrical or in some cases, just to get the leather to turn well at all. I've used a number of different "rounded things" to do that over the years, but about 20 years ago, I hit on something i wish I had thought of 2 1/2 decades before that. I meant to open my screwdriver drawer to use the rounded end of a screwdriver handle, but opened the file drawer instead and that turned out to be a real epiphany. Many inexpensive plastic file handles are rounded on the ends but sort of flat in cross section. EUREKA!!! That is just the sort of thing one needs to get into some pouches to force the seams rounder or to the shape you want. Below is a link or pic of what I mean. BTW, I've found the shape of the yellow or black ones in the link to work the best.
www.sharkytools.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/315/2018/10/plastic-handles-single-color.jpg
BTW, one can dunk leather in the water before staining the leather, whether you stain the pieces before sewing them up or not. Maybe a 10 second dunk is all you need for this. The water that is retained for a short while doesn't allow stain to go too deep into the leather, so you don't wind up with something that is too dark for what you want.
More in the next post, but I'll stop there for now.
Gus
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Post by artificer on Sept 29, 2020 7:31:37 GMT -7
PS to my post above.
I apologize as I forgot to mention Sicilianhunter's hand stitching looks pretty neat and I believe that is worth mentioning. A neat saddle stitch comes from always putting the second needle (with thread) through the hole and either going over or under the first thread the same way each and every time. This doesn't add or detract any strength from the stitching, it purely is for esthetics of the look of the stitching. However, that is the way it was done during the period and is still the mark of quality work today.
However, I must also say I've seen original early 19th century "home made" pouches and other leather work, where the stitching was not neatly done. So a frontiersman making his own pouch or other leather items, may not have had such good looking stitches.
I did not serve a leatherworking apprenticeship, so this was something I had to discover on my own. Matter of fact, I began hand stitching leather a few years before Al Stohlman's book, "The Art of Hand Sewing Leather" was first published in 1977. When it was published, I found it a treasure trove of information on different types of hand stitching and still refer back frequently to my WELL worn copy over 40 years later, before I begin a new project.
For those interested in learning to saddle stitch and/or improving the look of their stitching, it is hard to beat the videos down by Neil Armitage, who was trained in the older English manner of leather working. The following is an exceptionally good example to view. BTW, Neil was first recommended to me by a REAL trained leather worker who had a career making period authentic pieces of different sorts, that man was Chuck Burrows. So I'm including a link to anyone who may enjoy learning more about saddle stitching.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGuiha5S2oE
Hope you enjoy it.
Gus
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Sept 29, 2020 10:03:34 GMT -7
Gus, Thank you for your compliments and the detailed reply!! I too, had reservations the first time I wet my leather to work it. It does make turning the items a breeze among other things. I did use several rounded handles and even a rolling pin the run the seams inside the pouch. Those file look like the best idea yet as you can Mount them on a post which would allow both hands on your item while running the interior seam. I would like to check out that video series you mentioned, do you know if it’s still available somewhere?
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Post by artificer on Sept 29, 2020 12:30:42 GMT -7
Sicilianhunter,
Here is the link and you have to hit the "buy dvd" arrow to find the videos. However, I'm not sure if they are available. James Rogers got the entire set for me a couple years ago and Eric was not in good health at the time, I'm sorry to say.
thewilliamsburgsaddler.weebly.com/
I have a supper engagement I have to get ready for, so I'll add more later. In the meanwhile, would you allow me to use one of your pics to show something that has both a common mistake and something good in it, in a new thread on 18th century leather working techniques I'd like to start?
Gus
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Sept 29, 2020 12:48:26 GMT -7
Gus, I picked up the habit of using lacing punches as Nock did and through the same source, Ken Scott’s video on shot pouch making. This makes for very evenly spaced stitching. Another habit I picked up from Ken Scott it to do the saddle stitch with one needle. I discovered 2 things: A) you have one hand free to hold the item which eliminates the need for a stitching pony. B) should you miscalculate your thread length, it’s easy to add one in. Working with 2 needles can make this more of a chore to recover from. My theory is to construct the best products I can using the most common methods and stitches and when that begins to bore me I will start to incorporate intentional irregularities, “repairs”, “use fatigue” and antiquing. It might take a while for me to get there. BTW, I just ordered a video from Eric Myall on making a portmanteau. Not a common item but one I’ve been wanting for a while! Thanks for the tip and the YT link both are good stuff!!
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Sept 29, 2020 12:51:06 GMT -7
Sicilianhunter,
Here is the link and you have to hit the "buy dvd" arrow to find the videos. However, I'm not sure if they are available. James Rogers got the entire set for me a couple years ago and Eric was not in good health at the time, I'm sorry to say.
thewilliamsburgsaddler.weebly.com/
I have a supper engagement I have to get ready for, so I'll add more later. In the meanwhile, would you allow me to use one of your pics to show something that has both a common mistake and something good in it, in a new thread on 18th century leather working techniques I'd like to start?
Gus Gus, Absolutely!! I have no problem being a training dummy as I usually learn a great deal that way. Enjoy your dinner engagement !!
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Post by artificer on Sept 29, 2020 13:24:22 GMT -7
Thanks Sicilianhunter,
I hope I can copy/paste one of your pics for the new thread.
BTW, though I have had a "saddler's clam" for maybe 30 years, I must admit I don't usually use it to work on pouches, belts, straps, cartridge and cap boxes, holsters, etc.; but I still use the two thread saddle stitch for more strength.
Gus
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Post by Sicilianhunter on Sept 29, 2020 16:19:26 GMT -7
Thanks Sicilianhunter, I hope I can copy/paste one of your pics for the new thread. BTW, though I have had a "saddler's clam" for maybe 30 years, I must admit I don't usually use it to work on pouches, belts, straps, cartridge and cap boxes, holsters, etc.; but I still use the two thread saddle stitch for more strength. Gus Gus, Just like you, for some reason I had to have a saddler’s clam and have yet to use it!! Live and learn !! I have used the 2 needle method extensively but in all honesty, I’m just as comfortable with the Ken Scott single needle method. Depending on the situation and the demands of the project, I can see the merits of both
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