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Post by paranger on Nov 30, 2020 13:24:54 GMT -7
The Potter sword is not nearly curved as much near the tang as Hawkeye's blade. Much further up the blade, maybe so, but then the tang would have needed to have been forged or cut from the blade that if broken, already proved it was not up to the rigors of combat. Further, it would have taken a real blade/sword smith to rectify such a bad blade and way beyond what a regular blacksmith could do. Hawkeye's blade is fully believable as a Hunting Sword made in that style. Why try to go way out on a limb to justify it as something else? . Gus. First off, ANY blade can be broken if subjected to the right circumstances. According to an eyewitness American POW, Cornwallis leaned on his sword until it snapped when informed of Tarleton's loss at Cowpens. Surely HIS blade would not be of inferior quality... Secondly, I don't see what would be so difficult about filing or grinding a section of blade down to tang width. Reattaching the original handle might be a bit tricky, but fabricating another certainly would not.
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Post by paranger on Nov 30, 2020 13:26:38 GMT -7
Quenched and tempered today, excellent results all around. Time for fit and finish. Forged out a smaller sheeps foot via a provided pattern from paranger, not to full scale but a tad shorter as a trial run with the leftover steel from this blade. When it's all said and done its not an exact replication of any exact period piece. What it is regardless is a fine gift for my father who will be tickled pink to display it. Regardless of replicating this or that the basis of "what" it is indeed is off the above example and definitely within the realm of realistic expectations to what would have been done to a broken cuttoe or saber with a serviceable handle and blade section. A true hunting sword indeed will be made, when I can make a steel run that is for a worthy piece of stock. Nothing I have currently can be drawn to the length needed. Lovely work all around, Hawkeyes.
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Post by artificer on Nov 30, 2020 19:45:24 GMT -7
The Potter sword is not nearly curved as much near the tang as Hawkeye's blade. Much further up the blade, maybe so, but then the tang would have needed to have been forged or cut from the blade that if broken, already proved it was not up to the rigors of combat. Further, it would have taken a real blade/sword smith to rectify such a bad blade and way beyond what a regular blacksmith could do. Hawkeye's blade is fully believable as a Hunting Sword made in that style. Why try to go way out on a limb to justify it as something else? . Gus. First off, ANY blade can be broken if subjected to the right circumstances. Legend has it that Cornwallis leaned on his sword until it snapped when informed of Tarleton's loss at Cowpens. Surely HIS blade would not be inferior quality... Secondly, I don't see what would be so difficult about filing or grinding a section of blade down to tang width. Reattaching the original handle might be a bit tricky, but fabricating another certainly would not. If the legend was true, was the sword Cornwallis broke his dress/court sword or was it a combat sword? A period Dress sword would have been far more likely to break/snap when subjected to that abuse. Sure one can break a combat sword/saber if abused enough. You can tighten almost any sword blade in a vise and break it by bending it far enough, if one is bound and determined to do so. There are other ways in the period one could break a sword when enough abuse was applied as well. Leaving deliberate abuse aside, though, when a sword breaks at the normal point area of percussion (which is where one would have to do it to get the curve matching the Potter sword) against another sword, then the sword blade was not hardened/tempered properly or the steel was burned in forging and ruined the base steel. Good sword blades get nicks to loosing a chunk of material off the edge, but they don't break when used sword hitting sword in combat. A Cavalry sword that would break when running a man through at full gallop, would also have been considered an inferior blade during this period. Why? Because both were common expected uses of such swords. OK, so if the sword broke at the point leaving a piece with enough curvature, which part of the sword would have been seen to re-use? The piece that still had the grip and guard or the piece that broke off? Well, the piece that retained the grip and guard could have been ground on a grinding wheel to make a serviceable short sword much easier than using the broken off piece with just the tip of the blade. Yes, the front piece could have been forged to form a tang, but that required knowledge of properly tempering the tang so it would not break and re-tempering the front part that did break so it could take abuse and still cut/slash.. Then of course some kind of grip/hilt would have to be made or fitted. Sure it is possible the front part of the blade could have had all these things done to it, if, if, if, etc.; but was it even likely it would have been done? Can it be documented? Again, I like the blade Hawkeyes came up with and it is fully believable as a Hunting Sword Blade. Further, I'm sure his Dad will be proud as punch his son made it for him. Gus. .
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Post by hawkeyes on Dec 1, 2020 8:09:09 GMT -7
I'm certainly not aiming for an absolute replication. Such things seem to over water the fields of our hobby I feel. I'm guilty of it myself at times, however we all have a benchmark to aim from with concrete documentation. Then we put our logical "Experimentation" into play by making decisions based upon what we know and what could be.
Old Dominion forge replicates these broken saber knives I believe.
Also came across an 1846 dated cav saber that was broken and shortened into a usable blade. Piece was offered from an auction site from California. Later part of the 19th century but obviously someone somewhere had the idea to construct such a piece.
To me it seems at times we like to place the intelligent people of the day into a box, based off what we know... When we step outside the confines of that box with a variation of sorts, obviously questions arises which definitely is good for conversation!
Experimental archeology within limits is a good thing, I can think of many things that do forgo the confines of the 18th century so caution must be used. I try to be careful with such projects and maybe this is one, however I absolutely cannot believe that someone somewhere passed on looking upon a broken saber, or whatever it may be and not use his ingenuity to process the piece into a usable blade. As someone who obviously dabbles in a multitude of crafts, smithing being one 90% of the work (thinking usable broken sword) has been done... I work away from the imperfection and present a completely functional weapon while retaining the original handle, fit and finish of sorts.
All up for interpretation and I could be dead wrong on that theory... Maybe the individual comes across that broken sword and just doesn't give it any thought at all. I just know me being me, that bad boy would be getting fixed up in a jiff. I would speculate there certainly were like minded folks like myself alive and well during the period, but different times obviously, different standards so again I could certainly we wrong and it wouldn't be the first time.
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Post by artificer on Dec 13, 2020 10:06:59 GMT -7
Hawkeyes,
Did your Dad happen to serve in the Navy?
The reason I ask is because I got to thinking more about your blade and realized it would make a fine mid to late 18th century Naval Midshipman's Curved Dirk.
I use the AOL search function and found all kinds of curved dirks and handles/hilts that may give you ideas.
Just a thought.
Gus
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Post by hawkeyes on Dec 14, 2020 15:41:47 GMT -7
He sure isn't, we are an all Army family and I broke the mold by going into the Air Force. I went ahead and just finished her up with an oak handle and iron guard with a threaded pommel. Wrapped with moose hide and sewn. I've got so much going on I just did the blade up in a very simple manner. Nothing based on any specific example anymore but it indeed is done!
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