|
|
Post by hawkeyes on Nov 23, 2020 6:15:11 GMT -7
Does anyone carry a hunting sword within their kit or on their person? I've been looking at original pieces from the period and have gathered a few images that have sparked interest.
Have a few pieces of 1095 that would be perfect.
Should mention I'm not actually planning on carrying this on outings. Merely an 18th century tool I'd like to recreate simply because I can.
|
|
|
|
Post by brokennock on Nov 23, 2020 6:42:01 GMT -7
Oh boy,,,, this is going to get good....
|
|
|
|
Post by paranger on Nov 23, 2020 6:50:30 GMT -7
|
|
|
|
Post by hawkeyes on Nov 23, 2020 11:42:55 GMT -7
Beautiful, I'm more fond of a straight blade design versus a swept sabre. However, definitely send that piece my way for safe keeping! |
|
|
|
Post by paranger on Nov 23, 2020 12:27:27 GMT -7
Yes, even period cavalry swords came in both falchion (curved) and spadroon (straight) forms. It appears that there was a range of preferences then, too...
|
|
|
|
Post by spence on Nov 23, 2020 13:37:34 GMT -7
Thanks for posting that, great to see. In my research I've never run across the term 'hunting sword' in period literature. I do find what I assume is the term used for such swords, cutteaux de chasse. Do you know if that is correct? I've also only found one report of a sword being used in a hunting situation such as you would imagine a hunting sword would be used. It's one of my favorite finds. It took place in western Kentucky in the area known as the barrens, along what is now Barren River. From John Lipscomb's Journal, In Samuel Cole Williams, ed., _Early Travels in the Tennessee Country, 1540-1800_, Johnson City, The Watauga Press, 1928. The entry for June 30, 1784: "Proceeded on the Journey; came to the dripping spring; got brackfast. Colo. Robertson and Cloud two brother travelers left us and hurryed on the Journey: we took it at our Leisure; came on Crossed Bigg Barron river. Then as we came down the river Wm. Roberts and Toney went with their guns a little off from the company where they saw four deer drinking or moving in the river, the opposite side; they both prepared for the attack, but Roberts being very expirt in taking sight made the first attack on a two snagged buck and wounded him so very bad that the buck could not retreat. Roberts anxiety would not let him wait for the buck to die of the wound he had given him first, but run full drive in the river never stopping for the water, and attacked the buck with so much spirit sword in hand and put him to death. James Cryer to get to Roberts assistance run to the bank of the river and fell in all over and got to the deer. Toney also got to the deer to assist Roberts, but Roberts put him to death singing all the time (O you little deer, who made your breeches; mammy cut them out & dady sowed the stiches, dady sowed the stiches). We fared sumptiously on the little buck that night; Staid all night near the river in the Barrons; 23 miles." Drives home the fact that those guys were in many ways just like us, doesn't it?  Spence |
|
|
|
Post by paranger on Nov 23, 2020 15:08:33 GMT -7
Yep : couteau de chasse would be literally "hunting knife," but at 22-23" in length, a LONG KNIFE (as the Virginians were known to the Shawnee), or rather short sword for finishing off dangerous game as exemplified
in your passage. Really more of a holdover from the old world, I think, which perhaps explains the paucity of references to such in North America. I have more often seen "couteau" or "cuttoe" used rather loosely to refer to such a sword. I am aware that the term also to smaller knives in trade lists, which muddies the water somewhat.
In a military context, as in the case of the Jaegers (literally "hunters"), the hunting sword was an issued piece of military kit to compensate for the lack of a bayonet for their rifles.
|
|
|
|
Post by hawkeyes on Nov 23, 2020 16:30:48 GMT -7
I know short swords were popular during the 18th century, which somewhat replaced the rapier, hence the French cuttoe which I know Washington had and carried along with other swords in his possession. Most terminology I've found indeed points back to the Jaeger troops of the period concerning the term "hunting sword". Somewhat of a utilitarian weapon for sure.
This type of weapon certainly intrigues me, given I've never forged an actual sword of sorts. I may have to replicate this Jeager sword as well... The more I study the images the more I'm liking the overall blade design. How does it handle? Balanced towards the hilt or is it forward heavy? I'm assuming given the nature of the sword it balances towards the hilt allowing for very quick slashing and precise strikes. I'd very much like to get my paws on that beauty for some studying. Is the tang peened to the pommel? I am surprised the blade doesn't have a fuller, which given its size likely wouldn't make a drastic difference anyways come to think of it.
|
|
|
|
Post by paranger on Nov 23, 2020 17:02:03 GMT -7
I know short swords were popular during the 18th century, which somewhat replaced the rapier, hence the French cuttoe which I know Washington had and carried along with other swords in his possession. Most terminology I've found indeed points back to the Jaeger troops of the period concerning the term "hunting sword". Somewhat of a utilitarian weapon for sure. This type of weapon certainly intrigues me, given I've never forged an actual sword of sorts. I may have to replicate this Jeager sword as well... The more I study the images the more I'm liking the overall blade design. How does it handle? Balanced towards the hilt or is it forward heavy? I'm assuming given the nature of the sword it balances towards the hilt allowing for very quick slashing and precise strikes. I'd very much like to get my paws on that beauty for some studying. Is the tang peened to the pommel? I am surprised the blade doesn't have a fuller, which given its size likely wouldn't make a drastic difference anyways come to think of it. I suspect that the tang is indeed peened, but it is underneath a brass pommel cap, so I can't say for sure. As far as handling and balance, it is weighty, but definitely not awkward. The spine is a shade under 3/16" thick, and the blade is a full flat grind (no "saber grind" or fuller), so fairly stout. It is definitely more "weight forward" than some slimmer swords with more substantial, guarded hilts, and requires somewhat of a firm grip. But then, I reckon it wasn't designed for fencing, either, but to penetrate to the vitals of a wounded boar. |
|
Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990 
|
Post by Keith on Nov 23, 2020 20:03:02 GMT -7
This is one that was custom made for me.   Keith. |
|
|
|
Post by hawkeyes on Nov 24, 2020 6:08:38 GMT -7
This is one that was custom made for me. Keith. Very nice, what are the dimensions? Blade profile reminds me of the Springfield 1903/A3 bayonet, minus the fuller on the spine. |
|
ewoaf
City-dweller
Posts: 203
|
Post by ewoaf on Nov 24, 2020 7:28:02 GMT -7
I have one for a couple portrayals, primarily for Monroe who's Rev war sword is in the Monroe museum. I reproduced it because.. Well I'm Monroe. It's a very basic brass shell guarded cuttoe which were made in haste for the Continentals whose lack of pointy things is well established. It's so representative of a continental cuttoe that I wouldn't hesitate to use it for almost any american officer portrayal or anyone lacking a bayonet.
I just finished another iron shell hilted long knife with 12" blade for my brother's bday.
|
|
|
|
Post by hawkeyes on Nov 24, 2020 8:33:20 GMT -7
I have one for a couple portrayals, primarily for Monroe who's Rev war sword is in the Monroe museum. I reproduced it because.. Well I'm Monroe. It's a very basic brass shell guarded cuttoe which were made in haste for the Continentals whose lack of pointy things is well established. It's so representative of a continental cuttoe that I wouldn't hesitate to use it for almost any american officer portrayal or anyone lacking a bayonet. I just finished another iron shell hilted long knife with 12" blade for my brother's bday. You must share images... At this moment I was looking at several long knife examples. My 1095 stock isn't long enough to draw out a full 22" blade and tang. A long knife would also be a very fitting project. I would very much like to reproduce a cuttoe, specifically Washingtons lions head. However I've become fascinated with 18th century colichemarde's for good reason, one deadly blade and very striking in appearance. Yet that blade profile very much scares me in terms of reproducing. Could also do a broken sword knife... I've seen several examples of hunting swords or cuttoes that have been modified for service after being broken. Seems a 12" blade would be acceptable for this as well. |
|
ewoaf
City-dweller
Posts: 203
|
Post by ewoaf on Nov 24, 2020 12:40:53 GMT -7
Well.. If you ever get cranking on blades I might be interested. Especially for a long saber.
|
|
|
|
Post by hawkeyes on Nov 24, 2020 16:19:07 GMT -7
Well.. If you ever get cranking on blades I might be interested. Especially for a long saber. Certainly, that is my goal. Do a custom blade here or there for those who are interested. I am very particular and must have things just right when forging. |
|
