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Post by armando on Jan 6, 2021 19:24:36 GMT -7
Was just able to get my first smoothbore Brown Bess. My other flintlocks are Pennsylvania/Kentucky style rifles. It was a Gentleman's build and he was downsizing his collection and I don’t have a lot of information on it. My questions are: - I have a sturdy ToW Range Rod are use both for cleaning and when at our club range, but not sure what size Jag do use for wiping down the barrel. - it shoots 75 ball but what do most folks use for patches? - I haven’t shot it yet but it is a standard 50 grain load for 75 ball the norm for starters?  |
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Post by Black Hand on Jan 6, 2021 19:48:13 GMT -7
I shoot 75-80 grains of FFFg in my 62. You might want to consider something a little north of 50 grains...
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Post by artificer on Jan 6, 2021 19:54:17 GMT -7
Hi Armando,
First and before I forget, the bottom of the trigger looks WAY too close to the trigger guard in your photo. Can you see a rub on the inside of the bow of the trigger guard from the bottom of the trigger hitting it?
OK, I'm not entirely sure who made the barrel and lock and when. It looks like a Birch Stock, which could mean an older reproduction or a replacement stock for one of the original kits that came back from an old cache in India.
Since I'm not sure who made your Bess and when and repro's have been made in "Non Standard" British Calibers, it would be best to check the muzzle with a precision dial caliper to see just what size bore you have.
What else can you tell us about your Bess?
Gus
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Post by artificer on Jan 6, 2021 20:06:01 GMT -7
My accuracy load in my old Pedersoli Brown Bess Carbine was 70 grains of 2Fg. Since the bore was .753" in diameter, I used the then largest size ball on the market, which was then a ball from a .735" mold. I used a thick and well lubed pillow ticking patch that required I use a short starter.
However, forum member Spence has reported better accuracy than I used to get using a wad between the powder and patched ball. I never heard of that when I competed with my Bess and would have loved to have tried it, had I known of it back then.
Gus
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Post by armando on Jan 7, 2021 3:57:52 GMT -7
Hi Armando, First and before I forget, the bottom of the trigger looks WAY too close to the trigger guard in your photo. Can you see a rub on the inside of the bow of the trigger guard from the bottom of the trigger hitting it? OK, I'm not entirely sure who made the barrel and lock and when. It looks like a Birch Stock, which could mean an older reproduction or a replacement stock for one of the original kits that came back from an old cache in India. Since I'm not sure who made your Bess and when and repro's have been made in "Non Standard" British Calibers, it would be best to check the muzzle with a precision dial caliper to see just what size bore you have. What else can you tell us about your Bess? Gus Thanks Gus! I believe the stock may be an old ToW stock but not sure about the lock. The barrel is tapered (swamped?) but there are no markings on it. The gentleman (an old buckskinner and reenactor of many years) shot 75 ball out of it and I got a can of hand-thrown 75 ball and ball mold (sans handles) with the gun. |
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Post by paranger on Jan 7, 2021 5:00:25 GMT -7
Armando,
I use 90gr. of 3F in my Pedersoli behind either a.715 ball (patched) or a .735 naked ball, or sometimes a .69 ball in a paper cartridge. Keep in mind that military muskets were loaded from cartridges with undersized ball (.69). So, it sort of depends on what you want to represent / do with the musket. Though patching smoothbores is something many of us have done to improve accuracy, it is not really a documented 18thc. practice (there are a multitude of previous threads on this here and elsewhere).
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Post by hawkeyes on Jan 7, 2021 5:33:25 GMT -7
More images maybe? Barrel is likely a first land tapered pattern, it's definitely not swamped. Stock to me almost looks like maple... Definitely more images would be great, the lock may be any number of the repos on the market. Any markings on the inside lock plate?
Are there any gaps around the breech and tang area? Those can be bad news under recoil.
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ewoaf
City-dweller
Posts: 203
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Post by ewoaf on Jan 7, 2021 7:06:27 GMT -7
.690 ball, no patch, 80 gr, and paper wad.
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Post by artificer on Jan 7, 2021 8:28:06 GMT -7
Armando et al,
Since you are new to the Brown Bess, I wanted to advise that one has to be a bit careful when casually using original source material for ball size and especially powder charges.
The original caliber of the "King's Musket" was .76 caliber, not the .75 caliber many repro's are made in today. (The Japanese also made some .69 cal. barrel repro's and others made barrels in .72-73 caliber in recent years.) Further, precision machining was still years in the future and precision measuring instruments further in the future as well. That meant the actual bore size of the original Brown Bess ran from .76 to .78 caliber by modern measurements and wore even further during the 10-12 year service life of the muskets. During that time period, the Iron barrels often caused muzzle wear to be as much as .80 and sometimes larger, after they began using Steel Rammers.
The "issue" ball size for paper cartridges for the Brown Bess was stated to be .69 caliber in the period. However, that too was not a modern precision measurement and actually was the smallest size the original balls and ball molds came in. T.F. Hamilton in his book "Colonial Frontier Guns" actually used a precision dial caliper to measure many original/unfired excavated balls found all over the U.S. and Canada. They ranged in size from .69 to as much as .72 caliber by precision measurement. By far the most common size of the balls was .710" or .71 caliber and not the "quoted" .69 caliber.
Now one REALLY has to be careful about using the documented period powder charges!! During the FIW, the powder charge was 165 grains of 1 Fg powder. Now, some of that went into the priming pan on the lock, but at least 140 grains still went down the bore and that is too much for modern powder, which is more potent than normally found in the period. During the AWI, powder charges went up to 180 grains at first and even 220 grains in the cartridges, BUT that was because such poor powder was provided to the British Army during the AWI. I mention these "period" powder charges ONLY because you may see them in print and might think to try them. PLEASE don't do it.
Some folks use up to 90 to 110 grains of 1Fg modern powder in their Besses and the latter should really be the high end of what one uses today. Like I said before, I used 70 grains of 2Fg in my bore and that gives a little more propellant gas and thus velocity than the period 1Fg powder did.
Gus
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Post by armando on Jan 7, 2021 9:40:35 GMT -7
So much great information!
But what about what size Jag and patch to use to swap down the barrel between shots or maintenance?
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Post by hawkeyes on Jan 7, 2021 10:30:26 GMT -7
So much great information! But what about what size Jag and patch to use to swap down the barrel between shots or maintenance? Musket worm, then wrap pieces of cloth around till tight. |
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Post by spence on Jan 7, 2021 10:31:01 GMT -7
Here's a one-size-fits-all method I use which actually does a better job than any jag. In these photos I use a coil worm which is documented to the period, I think, but a modern corkscrew worm works as well.     Cut the strip from good absorbent material as wide as you like, wrap as much of it on as needed to make the swab fit snuggly in the bore, use it wet or dry, with oil or paste lube. You can press it against the breech plug face to scrub it or grease it, and twisting the ramrod will scour the bore much easier and better than just sliding a jag and patch up and down. It gets at that corner where the edge of the breech plug meets the bore wall, too. Only $19, buy one, get one free.  Spence |
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Post by hawkeyes on Jan 7, 2021 11:57:55 GMT -7
Here's a one-size-fits-all method I use which actually does a better job than any jag. In these photos I use a coil worm which is documented to the period, I think, but a modern corkscrew worm works as well. Cut the strip from good absorbent material as wide as you like, wrap as much of it on as needed to make the swab fit snuggly in the bore, use it wet or dry, with oil or paste lube. You can press it against the breech plug face to scrub it or grease it, and twisting the ramrod will scour the bore much easier and better than just sliding a jag and patch up and down. It gets at that corner where the edge of the breech plug meets the bore wall, too. Only $19, buy one, get one free. Spence I make these from spring steel often because I loose them like my mind... Actually just made one for my little .32, definitely much more effective than a jag IMO as well. |
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Post by armando on Jan 7, 2021 14:07:52 GMT -7
More images maybe? Barrel is likely a first land tapered pattern, it's definitely not swamped. Stock to me almost looks like maple... Definitely more images would be great, the lock may be any number of the repos on the market. Any markings on the inside lock plate? Are there any gaps around the breech and tang area? Those can be bad news under recoil. Here are some more pictures  how do you upload photos  how do you upload photos |
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