Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990 
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Post by Keith on Mar 12, 2019 16:03:41 GMT -7
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Post by Guest on Apr 2, 2019 5:59:42 GMT -7
Keith,
I was wondering if you could point me in a direction to research the use of pack frames in the colonies?
I saw something briefly on your website but it was European in nature.
Thanks
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Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990
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Post by Keith on Apr 2, 2019 23:45:20 GMT -7
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Post by Guest on Apr 9, 2019 7:21:26 GMT -7
Keith,
Thanks for the study material and the food for thought.
I imagine the reason I would be thinking in the direction of a pack frame of any type is to accommodate a heavy (heavier) load such as meat or skins or both.
I also suppose, now that I think of that scenario, one of native design could be readily made on the spot should you need it.
After that, why wouldn't you keep it and even attach your haver-, snap- or knapsack to it ?
Weight is a constant factor but would you agree that some items are worth it?
I also realize that it would have some sort of "weight rating" so a light weight frame would fail under a load to heavy for it...trade offs...
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Post by Black Hand on Apr 9, 2019 14:49:13 GMT -7
I started with a pack-frame I made from Mountain Maple lashed with rawhide. It was retired rather quickly and a knapsack used since then. The frame, while it seemed like a good idea, was more awkward and I tended to overpack since "I had the space"...
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Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990
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Post by Keith on Apr 9, 2019 19:56:50 GMT -7
Keith, Thanks for the study material and the food for thought. I imagine the reason I would be thinking in the direction of a pack frame of any type is to accommodate a heavy (heavier) load such as meat or skins or both. I also suppose, now that I think of that scenario, one of native design could be readily made on the spot should you need it. After that, why wouldn't you keep it and even attach your haver-, snap- or knapsack to it ? Weight is a constant factor but would you agree that some items are worth it? I also realize that it would have some sort of "weight rating" so a light weight frame would fail under a load to heavy for it...trade offs... If one is skilled in woodcraft/survival then most of our equipment is for comfort, & this is important in long term wilderness living. But there still has to be some compromise between minimum weight & maximum self reliance. A woodsman going hunting for meat is not going to carry a full pack, as he/she does not intend to be in the woods for a long time. Those after hides usually use some other method of transport other than on the back on foot. Be careful of perhaps inventing a lifestyle or method that did not commonly exist for your persona. Yes a woodsrunner somewhere may have used a pack frame, but why & for what advantage? Keith. woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/search?q=drag+cart |
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Post by Black Hand on Apr 10, 2019 12:45:13 GMT -7
My knapsack:  My axe gets tucked under the leather straps holding the half-blanket to the bottom of the pack. Blanket (wrapped in my shelter canvas/groundcloth) is carried on a tumpline. With a canteen, bag, horn and gun, I'm ready to be out the door. |
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Post by hawkeyes on Apr 10, 2019 16:47:18 GMT -7
The Seneca pack frame is a solid option for a lightweight pack frame, however I've personally never came across any documentation concerning it's use amongst woodman of the period.
The Welsh dragcart that Keith posted in his video is another well documented cart. From a personal preference pack frames are limited in use to distribute a heavier load and can be cumbersome and uncomfortable at times, which is a killer when trekking in a period manner.
My pack is extremely similar to what BH has posted above. Everything needed for a few days trip or more packs well and is easy on weight. Remember, weight is everything when trekking, especially in mocs up and down various terrain!
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Post by hawkeyes on Apr 10, 2019 17:01:00 GMT -7
I forgot to add in the previous post a often overlooked carry method that goes way back into history and that is the simple tumpline. These predominantly were fingerwoven which involves many hours of work, but the results are a very beautiful piece. My tumpline is a linen woven strap adorning buffalo hide tag ends that have been sewn with heavy linen and the ties are hand braided hemp thongs with a individual length of approximately 6' Very simple method to carry gear and is rather comfortable, however be not in a hurry to get your gear as your kit would be tucked securely away in your bedroll, which would require you to plan your kit layout to your needs accordingly for common gear access.  |
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Post by Guest on Apr 11, 2019 7:29:28 GMT -7
Keith,
I suppose if queried at an event where one might be required to explain gear, as in some sort of competition where it would be necessary to have a back story for articles in question, it could be explained that horses were either stolen or took off (both of which were common occurrences and even happen today) and it became necessary to fashion a pack frame.
I do like the drag cart idea but you must admit, in hostile territory that might not be the best way to go as you would leave a trail a blind man could follow!! LOL
Of course we don't worry about that as reenactors but in sticking close to authenticity that may be a consideration if using it outside the settlements.
The advantages that I see would be that A) One could be fashioned on the spot. B) It could be done at no cost (horses cost money even leased ones) C) If you are on a hunt and score, you have an effective way to pack out the meat processed from the kill and a skin to wrap it in. Lash it to the pack frame and down the mountain you go.
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Post by Guest on Apr 11, 2019 22:32:32 GMT -7
My knapsack: My axe gets tucked under the leather straps holding the half-blanket to the bottom of the pack. Blanket (wrapped in my shelter canvas/groundcloth) is carried on a tumpline. With a canteen, bag, horn and gun, I'm ready to be out the door. What period is your haversack? What pattern is it based on? |
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Post by Black Hand on Apr 12, 2019 5:12:51 GMT -7
It is based on a large haversack to which I added gussets at the seams to give more space. I attached leather to the bottom as reinforcement after I ripped a lower strap attachment from the material.
I appreciate the question - I made this pack long ago before I had done much study and just kept using it because it worked. I've seen a few images that might show something similar, but I guess I should go look again...
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Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990
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Post by Keith on Apr 12, 2019 17:27:51 GMT -7
Keith, I suppose if queried at an event where one might be required to explain gear, as in some sort of competition where it would be necessary to have a back story for articles in question, it could be explained that horses were either stolen or took off (both of which were common occurrences and even happen today) and it became necessary to fashion a pack frame. I do like the drag cart idea but you must admit, in hostile territory that might not be the best way to go as you would leave a trail a blind man could follow!! LOL Of course we don't worry about that as reenactors but in sticking close to authenticity that may be a consideration if using it outside the settlements. The advantages that I see would be that A) One could be fashioned on the spot. B) It could be done at no cost (horses cost money even leased ones) C) If you are on a hunt and score, you have an effective way to pack out the meat processed from the kill and a skin to wrap it in. Lash it to the pack frame and down the mountain you go. If the complete animal is not too heavy to carry, I simply gut the animal, & secure to front legs to the hind legs turning the whole animal into a pack to be carried on the back. Keith. |
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Post by Black Hand on Apr 12, 2019 17:40:15 GMT -7
I've considered doing the same.
What keeps me from proceeding is the ticks and that people might take a shot at a deer, even if it was riding piggy-back on a human wearing blaze orange...
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Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990
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Post by Keith on Apr 12, 2019 17:46:18 GMT -7
   This is my knapsack. It started life as a haversack about 30 years ago, but I soon found out that the combination of bedroll on a tumpline & the haversack was not for me. It almost cost me my life negotiating a goat trail down the face of a cliff. The blanket roll caught on a protrusion sticking out from the cliff face which moved the blanket roll & with the haversack on my left side toppled me off the track. So, I converted the haversack into this knapsack, like apparently many originals were. I do not roll the blanket in my oilcloth when journeying on land, so that the oilcloth is readily available if I am caught in a rain storm. I carry the oilcloth secured under the flap closure of the knapsack. The flap is secured with two pewter buttons, three button closures were more common, but two button closures were also used. Keith. |
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