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Post by armando on Oct 19, 2021 18:40:07 GMT -7
While reading The Falcon (the John Tanner captive story) I came across this incident below.
(BTW, if you haven't read The Falcon, I highly recommend for references to Native/Frontier material culture and doings. The Falcon is a story of Native American life in the late 18th and early 19th century, as experienced by a white man, John Tanner. Tanner was captured by the Shawnee at an early age and eventually adopted into the Ojibwa Nation of Western Ontario, Eastern Manitoba and Northern Michigan.)
What happened here....
"As I was one day going to look at my traps, I found some ducks in a pond, and taking the ball out of my gun, I put in some shot, and began to creep up to them.
As I was scrolling cautiously through the bushes, a bear started up near me, and ran into a white pine tree almost over my head.
I hastily threw a ball into my gun and fired; but the gun burst about midway of the barrel, and all the upper half of it was carried away.
The bear was apparently untouched, but he ran a pirate into the tree. I loaded what was left of my gun, and taking him the second time, brought him to the ground."
- The Falcon, John Tanner Chap 5
To the best of my knowledge (and inferring from the text) from the reading this would have been a smooth bore "trade gun".
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Post by brokennock on Oct 20, 2021 18:47:19 GMT -7
Interesting. I'm wondering if something prevented the ball from dropping all the way down onto the shot causing an obstruction.
If the weight/mass of both shot and ball was too much for the gun to handle, and the ball was on the shot, the overdressed would have been closer to the breach.
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Post by armando on Oct 21, 2021 8:07:19 GMT -7
I wonder the same thing.
Makes me think of always double checking to make sure the ball is seated all the way down the barrel.
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Post by hawkeyes on Oct 21, 2021 9:06:34 GMT -7
The ole firelock to pipe bomb conversion...
I've seen some fellas mark their rods to reflect a properly seated ball. Given the fight or flight response of the situation I can see how such a debacle could happen.
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Post by brokennock on Oct 21, 2021 9:19:52 GMT -7
I'm of the feeling from the writers description that no attempt was even made to use the rod. I'm thinking he was relying on the weight of the ball, with no patch or anything else added to hinder it's dropping down the barrel, to just drop down and land on the shot load.
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Post by hawkeyes on Oct 21, 2021 11:22:29 GMT -7
I'm of the feeling from the writers description that no attempt was even made to use the rod. I'm thinking he was relying on the weight of the ball, with no patch or anything else added to hinder it's dropping down the barrel, to just drop down and land on the shot load. Oh absolutely, certainly would agree. |
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Post by armando on Oct 22, 2021 3:15:57 GMT -7
This also reminded me of the fictional early 1800's series "Sharpe" in which they would "spit load" the ball into the muzzle then just tap on the ground to "seat the ball" rather than the rod.
I would scratch my head on that one when I saw it.
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Post by paranger on Oct 22, 2021 4:58:35 GMT -7
This also reminded me of the fictional early 1800's series "Sharpe" in which they would "spit load" the ball into the muzzle then just tap on the ground to "seat the ball" rather than the rod. I would scratch my head on that one when I saw it. There is much speculation about the extent of the practice, but David Blackmore in his excellent book "Destructive and Formidable, British Infantry Firepower 1642-1765" seems to think it was more widespread than commonly believed. All of this, of course, with the goal of increasing rate of fire. |
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Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990 
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Post by Keith on Oct 24, 2021 16:43:06 GMT -7
Interesting. I'm wondering if something prevented the ball from dropping all the way down onto the shot causing an obstruction. If the weight/mass of both shot and ball was too much for the gun to handle, and the ball was on the shot, the overdressed would have been closer to the breach. Not necessarily so, I have seen this happen, & put it down to the breach being much thicker walled than further towards the muzzle. Keith. |
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Post by brokennock on Oct 24, 2021 18:10:58 GMT -7
It would seem that with black powder, pressure should have dropped much below the point of being able to burst a steel barrel by the time the ball reaches the outer half of the barrel unless something stops the ball or slows it enough for pressure to build again.
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Post by armando on Oct 29, 2021 18:15:37 GMT -7
It would seem that with black powder, pressure should have dropped much below the point of being able to burst a steel barrel by the time the ball reaches the outer half of the barrel unless something stops the ball or slows it enough for pressure to build again. I guess what I’m wondering is if this could happen if I didn’t ram the ball all the way against the powder |
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Post by paranger on Oct 29, 2021 19:05:02 GMT -7
It would seem that with black powder, pressure should have dropped much below the point of being able to burst a steel barrel by the time the ball reaches the outer half of the barrel unless something stops the ball or slows it enough for pressure to build again. I guess what I’m wondering is if this could happen if I didn’t ram the ball all the way against the powder You betcha. |
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Post by brokennock on Oct 29, 2021 19:20:43 GMT -7
It would seem that with black powder, pressure should have dropped much below the point of being able to burst a steel barrel by the time the ball reaches the outer half of the barrel unless something stops the ball or slows it enough for pressure to build again. I guess what I’m wondering is if this could happen if I didn’t ram the ball all the way against the powder Certainly it could. The damage would occur at whatever point the ball created the obstruction. A short started, but not rammed home, ball could certainly burst the muzzle end of a barrel, especially a thin barrel. Pressure is dissipating by this point, but, still needs to go somewhere. Remember, we are essentially playing with somewhat controlled pipe bombs. |
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Post by armando on Oct 30, 2021 3:22:14 GMT -7
Oh for sure....my question was rhetorical. Meaning, we all need to be always aware of a well seated ball.
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