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Post by brokennock on Dec 6, 2021 19:06:32 GMT -7
I gave seen the term "green corn" used a few times. Now, reading the section about corn in "Buffalo Bird Woman's Garden," there is a whole section on "green corn" treating it differently than corn left on the stalk longer. I have always had the impression that "green corn" is not fully ripe. True? But, from her descriptions of boiling and roasting it, I get the impression that the sweet corn we normally buy in the summer for food, is used like her green corn. Is our sweet corn harvested early and in the green corn phase, will it mature further if left on the stalk? I didn't think so, but am now unsure. Or, is this green corn phase only a usable immature phase of maize/field/cow corn? If one were to grow some dent or flint corn and were able to husk an ear of green corn next to an ear of corn left to fully mature,,,, what would one notice to be the differences between the two?
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Keith
City-dweller
Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
Posts: 990
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Post by Keith on Dec 6, 2021 21:22:53 GMT -7
Why is it called green corn? The expression "green corn" refers to ripened sweet corn, corn you could eat. These early people were great farmers. They depended on three staples - corn, beans, and squash. In the Woodland areas, these food items were so important that they had a name. nativeamericans.mrdonn.org/greencorn.htmlThe Green Corn Ceremony (Busk) is an annual ceremony practiced among various Native American peoples associated with the beginning of the yearly corn harvest. Busk is a term given to the ceremony by white traders, the word being a corruption of the Creek word puskita (pusketv) for "a fast".[1] These ceremonies have been documented ethnographically throughout the North American Eastern Woodlands and Southeastern tribes.[2] Historically, it involved a first fruits rite in which the community would sacrifice the first of the green corn to ensure the rest of the crop would be successful. These Green Corn festivals were practiced widely throughout southern North America by many tribes evidenced in the Mississippian people and throughout the Mississippian Ideological Interaction Sphere. Green Corn festivals are still held today by many different Southeastern Woodland tribes. The Green Corn Ceremony typically occurs in late July–August, determined locally by the ripening of the corn crops.[1] The ceremony is marked with dancing, feasting, fasting and religious observations. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Corn_CeremonyDefinition of 'green corn' Word Frequency green corn in British English NOUN another name for sweetcorn (sense 1) www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/green-coThere is also a corn of green colour: Grown for centuries in southern Mexico by Zapatec Indians to make a regional favourite green-flour tamale. Hope this helps. Keith.
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Post by spence on Dec 6, 2021 23:33:37 GMT -7
I have eaten field corn before it was fully ripe/mature. It is soft, full of 'milk', and very tasty when roasted on a stick over the campfire until golden brown. I would call that green corn.
"Travels in the Confederation, 1783-1784", Johann David Schöpf/Schoepf, translated from the German and edited by Alfred J. Morrison. Schoepff was chief surgeon of the Ansbach regiment of the Hessian troops in America during the AWI 1777-1784. Once the war ended he traveled through the country making observations of the people, the culture and about the botany and zoology of the areas he covered..
"Maize, however, does not everywhere come to complete maturity, and the people are accustomed to plant only so much of the commonest sort as they count on eating green. When the maize has just formed its ‘ears’, and the grain is still soft and full of sap, the Americans hold it to be a delicacy ; the ears are boiled or baked in the ashes, and eaten with salt and butter, and in the towns is cried for sale as ‘hot corn’."
Spence
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Post by brokennock on Dec 7, 2021 1:41:20 GMT -7
Why is it called green corn? The expression "green corn" refers to ripened sweet corn, corn you could eat. These early people were great farmers. They depended on three staples - corn, beans, and squash. In the Woodland areas, these food items were so important that they had a name. nativeamericans.mrdonn.org/greencorn.htmlThe Green Corn Ceremony (Busk) is an annual ceremony practiced among various Native American peoples associated with the beginning of the yearly corn harvest. Busk is a term given to the ceremony by white traders, the word being a corruption of the Creek word puskita (pusketv) for "a fast".[1] These ceremonies have been documented ethnographically throughout the North American Eastern Woodlands and Southeastern tribes.[2] Historically, it involved a first fruits rite in which the community would sacrifice the first of the green corn to ensure the rest of the crop would be successful. These Green Corn festivals were practiced widely throughout southern North America by many tribes evidenced in the Mississippian people and throughout the Mississippian Ideological Interaction Sphere. Green Corn festivals are still held today by many different Southeastern Woodland tribes. The Green Corn Ceremony typically occurs in late July–August, determined locally by the ripening of the corn crops.[1] The ceremony is marked with dancing, feasting, fasting and religious observations. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Corn_CeremonyDefinition of 'green corn' Word Frequency green corn in British English NOUN another name for sweetcorn (sense 1) www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/green-coThere is also a corn of green colour: Grown for centuries in southern Mexico by Zapatec Indians to make a regional favourite green-flour tamale. Hope this helps. Keith. So, you are saying they were growing sweet corn as we know it, and, a type of maize or dent or flint corn that was harvested later? Green corn and the corn harvested later and dried being two different varieties is not clearly indicated in this book or the other quotes I've read regarding green corn. For a long time I've had the impression that our sweet corn is a relatively modern variety (of very questionable nutritional value) created by selection for taste and texture.
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Post by spence on Dec 7, 2021 8:54:18 GMT -7
All types of corn used today are apparently the same species, Zea mays, but different varieties bred for different purposes. Sweet corn today, for example, is Zea mays. var. saccharata. I have no idea when these were developed. Was the "hot corn" hawked on the streets in colonial times the same as what we call sweet corn today? I would guess so, but it's only a guess.
All the corns are appropriate for human food. Field corn, for instance, is allowed to complete mature and dry on the stalk, and is then ground into cornmeal, made into cereals, etc.
It's interesting that the word maize, which is used for corn by most of the world, is a word from the language of the Taino tribe of the Caribbean. The Jamestown settlers mention that fact:
Wm. Strachey 1610-12: “The natives have here a kinde of wheat which they call poketawes, as the West Indians call the same maiz."
Spence
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Post by brokennock on Dec 7, 2021 16:19:57 GMT -7
......All the corns are appropriate for human food. Field corn, for instance, is allowed to complete mature and dry on the stalk,,,, Spence I think this is the essence of my question. What if we were to allow, say, "silver queen" or one of the other sweet corn varieties we buy for corn on the cob and such, to "complete mature,"? This assumes that my presumption that "green corn" is not fully mature. Like green apples.
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Post by hawkeyes on Dec 7, 2021 17:34:16 GMT -7
Excellent subject gents, as usual!
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Post by scottc60 on Dec 7, 2021 17:44:35 GMT -7
I not sure modern sweet corn will mature to hardness the same way.
It has been developed to be ready to harvest within 15 to 20 days after the ear develops silk, so it can be planted in stages to extend the season throughout most of the summer. This corn loses 50% of its flavor after picking within 12-18hrs if not refrigerated. And today's sweet corn has been bred through the years to increase it's sweetness and creaminess.
It's a whole different plant than those pioneers used.
Spence's definition of green corn as field corn picked early is on point as usual.
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Post by Black Hand on Dec 7, 2021 18:47:45 GMT -7
(of very questionable nutritional value) Hence nixtamalization (developed in the New World) - liberates the niacin.
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Post by brokennock on Dec 7, 2021 19:51:10 GMT -7
What's really funny about this subject, is that I started this topic because this has been stuck in my head. But,,,,,,, I don't even like corn. I like some corn products, tortillas, corn bread, corn muffins,,, corn liquor. But, corn on the cob, corn "nibletts" or kernels? No thanks. Smells good to me cooking. But, just don't enjoy it.
The only cooked whole kernel corn I like is corn nuts (not the mass produced convenience store kind, I know someone who makes them) and, "hoe corn." For those who've never had it, I'll describe "hoe corn," it might remind some people of another corn product. We make this for one yearly event at my fish and game club, at which we are also slow roasting sheep quarters over coals. Hoe corn is just sweet corn kernels,,,, a lot of then, many pounds, poured into a long low walled flat rectangular "pan" (for lack of a better term) that is placed over coals and allowed to cook for several hours. The corn is worked back and forth the length of the "pan" using clean garden hoes to keep it from scorching. It cooks down to a consistency similar to a thick "creamed corn" but no cream is added. Many people think cream or cans of creamed corn is involved, but no, it is just a process of the sugars and liquid in the corner cooking out slowly. Fantastic stuff. Disagrees with me later,,,, but so worth it.
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Post by hawkeyes on Dec 8, 2021 6:27:48 GMT -7
Corn in multiple varieties is always a ready staple within my provisions for the forest. Amongst natives, one very important crop!
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Post by spence on Dec 8, 2021 8:55:10 GMT -7
brokennock said: "What if we were to allow, say, "silver queen" or one of the other sweet corn varieties we buy for corn on the cob and such, to "complete mature,"?"
In doing some searching on the web about corn I came across some info related to this question. It said CornNuts are made from a variety of sweet corn which is left to dry on the stalk, then cooked in oil.
Related to how early sweet corn existed, I also saw that the first record of it is that sweet corn was given to English settlers by the Iroquois in 1779.
Spence
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Post by brokennock on Dec 8, 2021 9:47:13 GMT -7
Thank you Spence. Amazing how in depth something we take for granted and as being so simple, really has such depth and complexity.
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Post by spence on Dec 8, 2021 11:01:31 GMT -7
Amazing how in depth something we take for granted and as being so simple, really has such depth and complexity. I apologize up front for the totally ridiculous length of this quotation, but it does justice to the "depth and complexity" of the early history of corn. The Annals of Tennessee to the End of the Eighteenth Century J. G. M. Ramsey A.M, M.D. On the frontier the diet was necessarily plain and homely, but exceedingly abundant and nutritive. The Goshen of America furnished the richest milk, the finest butter, and the most savoury and delicious meats. In their rude cabins, with their scanty and inartificial furniture, no people ever enjoyed in wholesome food a greater variety, or a superior quality of the necessaries of life. For bread, the Indian corn was exclusively used, It was not till 1790, that the settlers on the rich bottoms of Cumberland and Nollichucky, discovered the remarkable adaptation of the soil and climate of Tennessee to the production of this grain. Emigrants from James River, the Catawba and the Santee, were surprised at the amount and quality of the corn crops, surpassing greatly the best results of agricultural labour and care in the Atlantic States.This superiority still exists, and Tennessee, by the census of 1840, was the corn State. Of all the farinacea, corn is best adapted to the condition of a pioneer people ; and if idolatry is at all justifiable, Ceres, or certainly the Goddess of Indian corn, should have had a temple and a worshipper among the pioneers of Tennessee. Without that grain, the frontier settlements could not have been formed and maintained. It is the most certain crop---requires the least preparation of the ground---is most congenial to a virgin soil---needs not only the least amount of labour in its culture, but comes to maturity in the shortest time. The pith of the matured stalk of the corn is esculent and nutritious, and the stalk itself compressed between rollers, furnishes what is known as corn stalk molasses. This grain requires also, the least care and trouble in preserving it. It may safely stand all winter, upon the stalk, without injury from the weather or apprehension of damage by disease, or the accidents to which other grains are subject. Neither smut nor rust, nor weavil nor snow storm, will hurt it. After its maturity, it is also prepared for use or the granary, with little labour. The husking is a short process, and is even advantageously delayed till the moment arrives for using the corn. The machinery for converting it into food is also exceedingly simple and cheap. As soon as the ear is fully formed, it may be roasted or boiled, and forms, thus, an excellent and nourishing diet. At a later period it may be grated, and furnishes in this form the sweetest bread. The grains boiled in a variety of modes, either whole or broken in a mortar, or roasted in the ashes, or popped in an oven, are well relished. If the grain is to be converted into meal, a simple tub-mill answers the purpose best, as the meal least perfectly ground is always preferred. A bolting cloth is not needed, as it diminishes the sweetness and value of the flour. The catalogue of the advantages of this meal might be extended further. Boiled in water it forms the frontier dish called mush, which was eaten with milk, with honey, molasses, butter, or gravy. Mixed with cold water, it is at once ready for the cook---covered with hot ashes, the preparation is called the ash cake ; placed upon a piece of clapboard, and set near the coals, it forms the journey-cake---or managed in the same way, upon a helveless hoe, it forms the hoe-cake ; put in an oven, and covered over with a heated lid, it is called, if in a large mass, a pone or loaf, if in smaller quantities, dodgers. It has the further advantage over all other flour, that it requires in its preparation few culinary utensils, and neither sugar, yeast, eggs, spices, soda, pot-ash, or other et ceteras to qualify or perfect the bread. To all this, it may be added, that it is not only cheap and well tasted but it is, unquestionably the most wholesome and nutritive food. The largest and healthiest people in the world have lived upon it exclusively. It formed the principal bread of that robust race of men---giants in miniature---which half a century since, was seen on the frontier. The dignity of history is not lowered by this enumeration of the pre-eminent qualities of Indian corn. The rifle and the axe have had their influence in subduing the wilderness to the purposes of civilization, and they deserve their eulogists and trumpeters. Let paeans be sung all over the mighty West, to Indian corn---without it, the West would have still been a wilderness. Was the frontier suddenly invaded? Without commissary or quartermaster or other sources of supply, each soldier parched a peck of corn ; a portion of it was put into his pockets, the remainder in his wallet, and, throwing it upon his saddle, with his rifle on his shoulder, he was ready in half an hour, for the campaign. Did a flood of emigration inundate the frontier, with an amount of consumers disproportioned to the supply of grain? The facility of raising the Indian corn, and its early maturity, gave promise and guaranty that the scarcity would be temporary and tolerable. Did the safety of the frontier demand the services of every adult militiaman? The boys and women could, themselves, raise corn and furnish ample supplies of bread. The crop could be gathered next year. Did an autumnal intermittent confine the whole family or the entire population to the sick bed? This certain concomitant of the clearing, and cultivating the new soil, mercifully withholds its paroxysms, till the crop of corn is made. It requires no further labour or care afterwards. Paeans, say we, and a temple and worshippers, to the Creator of Indian corn. The frontier man could gratefully say : “He maketh me to lie down in green pastures. He leadeth me beside the still waters. Thou preparest a table before me in presence of mine enemies.” Spence
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Post by brokennock on Dec 8, 2021 16:46:57 GMT -7
Thank you again Spence. Yes, that quote is long, but contains a lot of good information, and illustrates a picture in the mind quite well.
I will copy and paste it to an email I will send myself. Then, I cab open it on my computer some other time and copy it to a Word document and save it. Giving me multiple places to not be able to find it again when I want or need it.
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