RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 23, 2022 8:03:07 GMT -7
My 21st Century self is using the story that my 18th Century persona’s 6 year old daughter did this to explain away the quality. 🙄 That’s it. Done. Recap and commentary coming later today.
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Post by artificer on Jun 23, 2022 9:54:26 GMT -7
You may well be right, Gus. I tend to think of the two garments as being essentially the same, but that's probably not the case. I notice that carters smocks/frocks were frequently mentioned in connection to militia groups, but are seldom described. "I wish my Lord his Majesty may be informed that of the fifty men [who] escorted me, I had not occasion to reprehend one officer or man during the time they were on that command; what they wanted in discipline they made up by a strict observance and willing obedience to all orders delivered to them. Each man had his rifle gun, and their general uniform and appointments were a carters frock, indian match clouts (in lieu of breeches) moccasons (for shoes) and woolen or leather leggins, the latter were necessary to prevent the bite of the snakes of which we saw a great plenty." Spence FWIW and I know it's not period documentation, I look at your smock/frock and could see someone could wear it while driving a wagon, while the farmers' smocks look WAY too loose and would get in the way doing the same. Gus
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Post by spence on Jun 23, 2022 10:03:18 GMT -7
On page 11 of this thread I posted two period cartoons. The first shows a man holding a whip, so it seems reasonable to conclude he is a carter. His smock is very like mine except it is just a bit longer.
Spence
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 23, 2022 15:43:14 GMT -7
Ok. Here’s the recap of how I went about this and what I discovered along the way. I decided early that a frock would be an extremely versatile piece of clothing for my persona. Research revealed that the frock… whether wagoner, farmer, laborer or whatever… was basically a large overshirt. I assumed this could possibly be conjecture, but period images bore this out. It’s a big shirt. So then… a pattern. Well, a shirt isn’t so much a pattern as a measured diagram. Everything is made of squares and rectangles. I happen to have Tidings from the 18th Century which has a shirt diagram in it. I took measurements over my wool cruiser, as I wanted my frock to fit over winter clothing. I’m 5’11”, 215lbs, and wear a 46 coat. My measurements came out like this: From top of shoulder to center of knee: 41” Shirt and frock shoulder seams are far down off of the natural shoulder. Based on some period images and to allow enough room in the body of the frock, I measured from 7” off my shoulder, across, behind my neck, and down 7” off the other shoulder. This measured: 36” So… the body of my frock would be constructed with a solid shoulder and a neck cut in, so I doubled my length. The body of my frock is a piece 36”x82”. My sleeves were cut at 25”x19” with 25” being the circumference and 19” being the length. My collar is a bit wider than most period images as are my sleeve bands. I wanted a wider cuff for no other reason than it seems in better proportion on the heavy frock than the 1” band on most shirts of the period. Note that some period images seem to show a collarless frock. To construct this, there needs to be some sort of band at the collar, even if fairly narrow. I also made larger arm gussets than a shirt pattern to allow easier donning and doffing over clothes. I chose a pretty heavy 7oz natural linen. This makes for a pretty substantial garment, but does take some adaptations in sewing and patterning. I’m glad I went with a wider cuff, as it would be extremely difficult to make a clean 1” sleeve band with this heavy fabric. Otherwise the frock was made as a shirt. I included some options that may not be present on period frocks, such as the small gathers. But I maintain that I think it likely that these details would have been included on many of these work garments. Rural Pennsylvania Clothing provided some extremely helpful details on construction. This book is one of those that command breathtaking prices, so I’m happy to pass along info from this wonderful volume to those that may want to see. The rest is in the preceding 15! pages of discussion. And I really thank everyone for the interest, encouragement and knowledge along the way. Hand had some useful photos of his work early on before I hit my stride and I’m thankful. Everyone should make a frock or shirt!
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
|
Post by RyanAK on Jun 23, 2022 15:45:55 GMT -7
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
|
Post by RyanAK on Jun 23, 2022 15:58:15 GMT -7
So what did I learn? Well…
There’s almost exactly 60 yards of thread I’m this frock.
Traditional construction methods are time consuming but bombproof when done well.
Small stitches are better in every possible way.
I likely have over 40 hours of needle time in this garment. A common shirt should be less due to my increased skill, my knowledge of how it all goes together, and the easier stitching of shirting weight linen.
This is a rugged garment that a lot of time was spent on constructing. The little bit extra detail makes a better frock and only adds a small part to the overall time invested. Do it right. I think it’s an error to assume these were ‘disposable’. ‘Consumable’, sure. Eventually. But ‘eventually’ will come later on if the extra work is put into the making.
The skills are transferable to almost every other garment we would wish to make.
Everyone should make a frock or shirt.
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 23, 2022 19:59:17 GMT -7
Also… the Burnley & Trowbridge videos on YouTube are absolutely wonderful and they have a 4-part shirt “sew along” series. The pattern for that shirt is available for download on their Etsy shop.
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Post by brokennock on Jun 24, 2022 6:59:41 GMT -7
Well done on your frock, and well written in these last few "synopsis" posts.
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 24, 2022 7:55:27 GMT -7
Thanks, friend!
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Post by hawkeyes on Jun 25, 2022 3:05:47 GMT -7
Well done, I'll be making a few of these indeed. Thoroughly enjoyed watching your progress and seeing the final garment.
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Post by brokennock on Jun 25, 2022 5:10:03 GMT -7
Ok. Here’s the recap of how I went about this and what I discovered along the way. I decided early that a frock would be an extremely versatile piece of clothing for my persona. Research revealed that the frock… whether wagoner, farmer, laborer or whatever… was basically a large overshirt. I assumed this could possibly be conjecture, but period images bore this out. It’s a big shirt. View AttachmentView AttachmentSo then… a pattern. Well, a shirt isn’t so much a pattern as a measured diagram. Everything is made of squares and rectangles. I happen to have Tidings from the 18th Century which has a shirt diagram in it. I took measurements over my wool cruiser, as I wanted my frock to fit over winter clothing. I’m 5’11”, 215lbs, and wear a 46 coat. My measurements came out like this: From top of shoulder to center of knee: 41” Shirt and frock shoulder seams are far down off of the natural shoulder. Based on some period images and to allow enough room in the body of the frock, I measured from 7” off my shoulder, across, behind my neck, and down 7” off the other shoulder. This measured: 36” So… the body of my frock would be constructed with a solid shoulder and a neck cut in, so I doubled my length. The body of my frock is a piece 36”x82”. My sleeves were cut at 25”x19” with 25” being the circumference and 19” being the length. My collar is a bit wider than most period images as are my sleeve bands. I wanted a wider cuff for no other reason than it seems in better proportion on the heavy frock than the 1” band on most shirts of the period. Note that some period images seem to show a collarless frock. To construct this, there needs to be some sort of band at the collar, even if fairly narrow. I also made larger arm gussets than a shirt pattern to allow easier donning and doffing over clothes. I chose a pretty heavy 7oz natural linen. This makes for a pretty substantial garment, but does take some adaptations in sewing and patterning. I’m glad I went with a wider cuff, as it would be extremely difficult to make a clean 1” sleeve band with this heavy fabric. Otherwise the frock was made as a shirt. I included some options that may not be present on period frocks, such as the small gathers. But I maintain that I think it likely that these details would have been included on many of these work garments. Rural Pennsylvania Clothing provided some extremely helpful details on construction. This book is one of those that command breathtaking prices, so I’m happy to pass along info from this wonderful volume to those that may want to see. The rest is in the preceding 15! pages of discussion. And I really thank everyone for the interest, encouragement and knowledge along the way. Hand had some useful photos of his work early on before I hit my stride and I’m thankful. Everyone should make a frock or shirt! From your research stage of the project, would you say all or most, of the paintings/drawings and descriptions show these to be solid colors and usually natural or undyed? Any check patterns represented?
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 25, 2022 6:20:14 GMT -7
Well done, I'll be making a few of these indeed. Thoroughly enjoyed watching your progress and seeing the final garment. Thanks, Hawkeyes. If ya have any challenges along the way, post up of PM and I’ll try to help ya along. Something tells me you’ll nail it though. Something tells me your boy will have his for a long time. The nature of one of these is such that it can be made broad and long and it’s already a roomy garment. He’ll enjoy it as a frock, and then I can become a shirt! 😎
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 25, 2022 6:50:36 GMT -7
Hey, ‘Nock. Great question. I don’t have a ton of images showing these… just because there aren’t a ton of paintings of colonial agrarian life that I’ve been able to find. The ones I do have are likely European and they all show natural colored cloth. We assume linen, but these could have been made of other cheap but sturdy cloth. B&T has Osnaburg that would have been fantastic. They do show some variations, though. I’ll use the images Spence posted because they’re at the top of my photo pile. This seems to be a standard, common frock. I’d say it has all the ‘normal’ features and the only real outlier, at least from a point of modern reproduction, is the length. This appears to be about mid-calf. This image is great. I haven’t found a color version of it, but I think we can assume this frock is also plain natural linen. I also can’t find a higher resolution version… because it looks like there’s some sort of decoration on the breast. I can’t tell if there’s a collar. It shows the shoulder reinforcements, arm seam location, narrow wrist bands and small-ish gathers very well. BTW… this image is called “Trepanning the Recruit”. Not sure of the connotation, but… 😬 Ah! Spoke too soon!!
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Post by brokennock on Jun 25, 2022 7:03:25 GMT -7
Different paintings. Maybe one is an attempt to recreat the 1st. The facial expressions are different. But, I do think that painting is a good example of the simple work/farmer's/carter's frock, being used to protect the clothing of someone in a higher station of life than your average laborer. I do believe you are correct that there is some decorative stitching or gathers at the neckline.
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 25, 2022 7:12:16 GMT -7
Then this charming painting. This seems European, but note that this frock has button neck closure and is top-of-knee length. So… everything I’ve come across has been for natural linen. Dying would have been extraneous, though I originally intended to dye mine. Check…? Checks seems to have been prevalent in shirting-weight linen rather than the heavier, coarser fabric these frocks would have been made of. My guess is these ‘working frocks’ were just sturdy, heavier linen, possibly homespun. Now, a ‘hunting shirt’? Have at it. They seem to have been an anything goes garment. Spence references them above. The 2nd Virginia during the AWI had purple hunting frocks at one point in their history!
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