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Post by bushfire on Jan 22, 2024 2:02:15 GMT -7
Good evening gentleman,
March marks 12 months since I commissioned my Manton flintlock build, the timeframe for which I was initially given by the smith. I called him a couple of days ago and disappointingly, he’s barely started. My new time frame is “probably sometime this year”.
In disappointment however lies opportunity. I have been squirrelling money away for the rifle (which has already increased substantially on the initial verbal quote) so I can probably use part of these funds for starting my 18th century clothing journey.
From recommendations I have received I’m thinking of going with Cobb Creek, providing they will ship internationally.
Button fly breeches, a F&I Weskit, chemise shirt and a hunting coat will be a good start if I can get the wife’s permission to spend $1k on clothes.
My question is what colours would be appropriate for the F&I era in these chosen garments? I’d like to keep them relatively drab for the purpose of deer hunting but I also would like them to be relatively accurate.
They will for the time being have to be supplemented by modern pairings such as my modern gaiters and boots, but it’s a start.
Appreciate any advice,
Jack
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Post by brokennock on Jan 22, 2024 6:18:54 GMT -7
1st. If Kathy won't ship them to you but you can still work out what you want with her (she often sorts out questions and finalizing an order on the phone), you can have her ship them to me, and I will ship them to you.
Second. Pick the color you like from what she has to offer, I doubt you will go wrong. But, while it will add to the time frame, due to the time it takes for something to get from here to there, if you can get her to send you a small packet of fabric samples like she sent me, it will help greatly as not all the colors are the same weight and weave linen. My grey "hunting coat" is vastly different material than my brown "hunting coat." Both are linen, but the brown is much heavier with a weave that creates more texture.
Buttons. Two things here. You might want to see if she can send you a swatch of whatever color/fabric you choose, enough to cover the buttons as Ryan did with his, and maybe for some possible patches and/or repairs. Also, you will need to choose what you want her to do with the pocket buttons. Her standard practice (from many past/early customer requests) is to sew the buttons to the outside of the flap so it looks buttoned when the flap is down, but you don't have to unbutton it to access the pocket. She will make the buttons/holes functional on request,,, but the button holes will be machine sewn.
Gators. Make some Indian leggings. Most know that I detest sewing fabric. Leggings are easy, even I can and will make them. I cut my pattern so there os a small lobe of material to the bottom front that lays over part of the top of my foot, this will help hide if you are wearing modern footwear.
I think she will ask you for a calf measurement and maybe one somewhere at the knee for your breeches. Don't forget to leave allowance for stockings.
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on Jan 22, 2024 7:50:17 GMT -7
Good on ya for taking this step and asking this question, Jack. I’ve spent a LOT of time studying this subject. I even have a spreadsheet.
Color of clothes depends mainly on your persona’s location and station in life. Virtually any color could be had… depending on where you were located on the planet, and in the social and economic stratus. Think about this and we can give you some suggestions. French or English or Spanish in North America? Laboring or middling class? New England or the Middle colonies? New France?
Kathy provides great clothes and will work with you. I recently sent her some wool for breeches and asked her not to include buttons or buttonholes so that I can do covered buttons and hand-worked buttonholes . No problem. When I had my suit made, I selected fabric from one of her suppliers and she made it up. I’ve… um… significantly altered my hunting coat. JJ has seen it. But I have problems when it comes to clothing and ‘reasonable’ people will be thrilled with Cobb Creek’s garments.
Think about who you are in the 18th century and we’ll guide you. Like I said. I have a spreadsheet. (Or I did before I got fired and they took my laptop…)
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Post by hawkeyes on Jan 23, 2024 10:25:49 GMT -7
Can you sew or tailor? Is the Mrs. able? I'll be completely honest in saying I've spent a great deal of coin on clothing and never have I been completely satisfied... That is until I started sewing my own. A daunting task it may seem but truthfully speaking it's really not! Time consuming yes, however the fruits of the labor are certainly worthwhile in the end.
What I'll add/ recommend on colors is look into natural dye options. My base is always 100% naturally colored linen and 100% wools that are naturally dyed or in a pinch commercial dyes. Sky's the limit and if you run over to the online collection at Colonial Williamsburg they have some very fascinating pieces contained in their collection for viewing.
I'd also recommend as BH did to me Tidings of the 18th century which has proven to be an invaluable resource for clothing, dyes and many other topics.
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on Jan 27, 2024 12:39:58 GMT -7
Jack??
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Post by Black Hand on Jan 27, 2024 20:01:45 GMT -7
Looking at original pieces in museum collections, they run the spectrum of colors. That said - blue, brown, black, green, yellow and red appear to be common (some more common than others).
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Post by bushfire on Jan 29, 2024 4:21:23 GMT -7
I’m still in the world of the living, work has been hectic and I’ve been a bit under the pump with family commitments so haven’t got back yet. |
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Post by bushfire on Jan 29, 2024 4:36:28 GMT -7
Firstly, Nock thank you for the kind offer of helping out if the shipping comes to that, hopefully not.
I’ll send her an initial email outlining some of the basics and see where it goes from there.
In terms of pockets etc. I’d prefer operational ones to have secure places for my phone, GPS etc.
For sewing, I myself have no skills in that area though I’m sure with time I could manage. I just find time my poorest commodity, even for the things I really enjoy. I can’t realistically see myself getting it done at this point in time.
As for persona, I don’t really have one at all. If I lived in the states I’d be right into living re-enactment and such but it’s not the same without anyone to share it with for me. I’m interested in the French during the late 17th to mid 18th century and would prefer something along those lines. If anything, in my actual life I grew up in quite a poor family on a small farm where we really did rely on game to fill out much of our meat intake. These days, I’d consider myself middle class - not without hard work to get here. I think that would be my area of interest, someone who’s grown up needing game and skins to get by but making a bit more money now although by no means wealthy.
I prefer drab browns and greens for my hunting and general day to day, earthy colours I suppose. Seems like these would fit.
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Post by brokennock on Jan 29, 2024 19:06:30 GMT -7
Jack, I just want to clarify something in my mind and make sure we are all on the same page as we try to assist you.
For a time frame you said, "late 17th to mid 18th century." So 1670s/80s to 1750s?
I ask because not a lot of people seem to cover 16anything in this hobby, and because it is a pretty broad time line.
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Post by bushfire on Jan 29, 2024 19:37:53 GMT -7
Dave,
It’s more that I just lack the knowledge to really place myself somewhere temporally. If I think of when I’d have personally liked to be alive, being born around 1720 would have me about my current age by the time of the F&I war.
As you know I have the same fusil as you, which isn’t entirely accurate in itself, but I also do a lot of hunting with my longrifle. That feels a bit out of place if I go down the F&I path, but I figure I have to start somewhere.
Kathy got back to me, she does ship internationally but predictably it is expensive. She said she will soon be having a price increase to align with material increases so I’d better get in. Sooner rather than later.
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Post by brokennock on Jan 30, 2024 2:29:22 GMT -7
Dave, It’s more that I just lack the knowledge to really place myself somewhere temporally. If I think of when I’d have personally liked to be alive, being born around 1720 would have me about my current age by the time of the F&I war. As you know I have the same fusil as you, which isn’t entirely accurate in itself, but I also do a lot of hunting with my longrifle. That feels a bit out of place if I go down the F&I path, but I figure I have to start somewhere. Kathy got back to me, she does ship internationally but predictably it is expensive. She said she will soon be having a price increase to align with material increases so I’d better get in. Sooner rather than later. So maybe your looking at early 1700s (18th century) to the later part of mid 1700s. Maybe 1720 to 1770? But, that still leaves your focus as an "adult" at 1730s to 1770s. |
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on Jan 30, 2024 9:06:27 GMT -7
I’ll write more when I can, but briefly…
If you’re truly interested in a French connection to North America in the 18th century… a hunting-centric impression… I think you would do well in the authenticity AND finance department to consider something like the following for a basic kit…
Breechclout and leggings - many French colonials embraced the dress of native Americans. No sewing for a clout, and minimal for wool leggings. Add stockings in winter. Blue, red, green (iffy research so far), black stroud. $50 clout, $20 leggings, $30 stockings (optional)
Mocassins or Soliers de boeuf - make your own or South Union Mills has good “beef shoes”. $50 (Mocs) $160 (shoes)
Common shirt - linen. Ask us before purchasing from a vendor. There were minor differences between French, English and Spanish shirts. Kathy’s at Cobb Creek looks good. $115
Gillet - not really a waistcoat… Common among French militia and colonists. I have some information on these buried in my research. I don’t know of anyone making these. Super simple to make. $40 for materials.
Marchault-style cap - double knit wool. South Union Mills makes a good version. $60
Capot - likely an expensive buy, especially if done with correct wool, but maybe within budget since we deleted breeches, buckled shoes, and waistcoat. White was the overwhelmingly predominant color based on my research.
“Mariner’s” short jacket - these seem to have been endemic in New France. I’d have to dig for my sources, but a simple, short jacket will be more practical and considerably less expensive than a justaucorps coat and likely more authentic than an English-style frock coat.
This is based on your interest in the French side of things in North America, and I wholeheartedly encourage you to stay the course. Kathy is great and I’m sure can fulfill what you need if you want to pursue English culture.
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Post by bushfire on Jan 30, 2024 16:20:20 GMT -7
Ryan and Dave,
Thank you both for all the information you guys have given me.
I was laying in bed last night thinking on this, as something has always been there niggling which I couldn't put my finger on. And finally it came to me... I don't live in the states.
When I'm out I try to imagine myself in the american 18th centruy but I'm surrounded by the smell of eucalyptys forests, mobs of kangaroos, screeching cockatoos, warbling magpies and roaring red stags.
The British first landed here in 1780 under captain James Cook, who himself fought the french in the F&I war (although the dutch and french had explored Australias coast 100 years before), and settled later that decade. Perhaps rather than forcing the french side of my ancestry I just work with where I am and aim for a 1780s british/Australian settler.
My love of french comes from my grandfather who emigrated to Aus from France in the 1940s, but my Irish side was here over 150 years prior to that.
And realistically, I'm familiar with the Australian bush, its plants and animals.
Maybe then I could be someone like Nicholas Creswell who's explored parts of the American colonies before moving on. Having taken a liking to American culture and dress (as I have in real life) the latter half of the 18th century styled clothing might work a little better. My longrifle and the English sporting gun when it arrives also won't be so out of place either.
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on Jan 30, 2024 16:37:38 GMT -7
Geography is a prime driver for a lot of us. You can visit the sites and smell the smells of those that came before… And educate all of us a bit about Australia in the 18th century! So… Wanna sell that fusil?  |
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Post by Black Hand on Jan 30, 2024 18:09:57 GMT -7
I was laying in bed last night thinking on this, as something has always been there niggling which I couldn't put my finger on. And finally it came to me... I don't live in the states. When I'm out I try to imagine myself in the american 18th centruy but I'm surrounded by the smell of eucalyptys forests, mobs of kangaroos, screeching cockatoos, warbling magpies and roaring red stags. And realistically, I'm familiar with the Australian bush, its plants and animals. Don't let this dissuade you. I do F&I but I lived in New Jersey as a pre-aware child and know very little about the area and botany. It's more about interest in a period than physical presence. This also shouldn't limit your choices - to shamelessly steal a piece of advertising "Just Do It"! |
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