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Post by armando on Feb 18, 2020 4:01:46 GMT -7
Was wondering about leggings, specifically as worn by woodsmen and such....
How were the styles different from 1750s through 1790's ,etc? Do the leggings style change at all much by the Fur Trade Era, as I see many mountain men wearing what appears to be something similar?
I was able to get a a knee high cloth (canvas?) pair with buttons up the side but am wondering about the construction of the different ones I've seen (like Keith wears in his videos).
Any good resources? I have a pattern my wife purchased for "Military Gaiters and Wool Leggins". Could these be used?
Also, what is the difference, if any, between gaiters or leggings (or the shorter Spatterdashes)?
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ewoaf
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Post by ewoaf on Feb 18, 2020 9:26:10 GMT -7
Leggings,leggons, gaiters, and whatever term you find can all mean different things or the same thing. Leggings as we think of them are made two ways, either buttoning up the entire side, or in the Indian fashion. In 1775/6 when the Virginia militia was getting spun up, leggings were being made for every soldier. Officers got blue stroud while everyone else got whatever. Sometimes halfthicks, duffel, coarser broadcloth, and whatever kind of blue wool was available. The records of the public store don't tell you how they were made of course, but buttons were sold along with the cloth, yet not enough to make traditional military leggings (the kind that button the whole way). If my calc is correct each man received about a dozen buttons, enough to button down the narrowist portion below the calf. Native leggings should be tight like a wet suit. Honky leggings go over stuff, yet still snug, so pattern accordingly.
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Post by armando on Feb 18, 2020 10:23:27 GMT -7
Leggings,leggons, gaiters, and whatever term you find can all mean different things or the same thing. Leggings as we think of them are made two ways, either buttoning up the entire side, or in the Indian fashion. In 1775/6 when the Virginia militia was getting spun up, leggings were being made for every soldier. Officers got blue stroud while everyone else got whatever. Sometimes halfthicks, duffel, coarser broadcloth, and whatever kind of blue wool was available. The records of the public store don't tell you how they were made of course, but buttons were sold along with the cloth, yet not enough to make traditional military leggings (the kind that button the whole way). If my calc is correct each man received about a dozen buttons, enough to button down the narrowist portion below the calf. Native leggings should be tight like a wet suit. Honky leggings go over stuff, yet still snug, so pattern accordingly. Thank you! Were the leggings ever tied on secured by other means than buttons?
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Post by paranger on Feb 18, 2020 10:39:06 GMT -7
Thank you! Were the leggings ever tied on secured by other means than buttons? Yes: garters. At least one pair tied just below the knee, and sometimes another at the ankles. I would personally steer away from the fancy fingerwoven kind, as I believe they were atypical and are highly over-represented by anglo reenactors. Simple worsted wool tape is found on countless tradelists and used for such a purpose. A leather thong will do in a pinch. According to Captain John Knox of the 43rd Foot writing about the upcoming campaign for 1758, said "indian leggings" were made for each soldier to be tied with a strip of the same wool issued to make the leggings.
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ewoaf
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Post by ewoaf on Feb 18, 2020 12:04:53 GMT -7
Or buckled leather for .mil
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Post by Black Hand on Feb 18, 2020 12:30:02 GMT -7
Remember that native leggings are a different animal. In this case, your leg is the best pattern and leggings varied by tribe, location and time. Can you tell us who, where, what and when you are...?
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Keith
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Bushfire close but safe now. Getting some good rain.
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Post by Keith on Feb 18, 2020 13:57:40 GMT -7
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Post by hawkeyes on Feb 20, 2020 5:11:31 GMT -7
Brain tan side seams. One of many pair's I make and own. All from deer or elk hide. Make them fit tightly around the legs and no more than a hand above the knee. Many are self conscious about showing to much "skin" with leggings and a clout. I'm one who isn't, comfortable all day long!
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ewoaf
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Post by ewoaf on Feb 20, 2020 7:19:59 GMT -7
You can't be afraid to show a little skin.
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Post by spence on Feb 20, 2020 7:59:40 GMT -7
In 1762 three cherokee chiefs visited London, and someone made a drawing of them. Their leggings don't seem to be as typically described for Native Americans, and as best I can tell they are center seam without the flaps. I based my civilian interpretation on that. I usually wear a simple leather band as garters. Here's the description of making woolen military leggings by Capt. Knox mentioned above. "The Colonel is ordered to provide the regiment with flannel under-waistcoats, and Leggers, or Indian stockings-, here follows a description of them: Leggers, Leggins, or Indian spatterdashes, are usually made of frize or other coarse woolen cloth; they should be at least three quarters of a yard in length; each Leggin about three quarters wide (which is 3 x 3) then double it, and sew it together from end to end, within four, five or six inches of the outside selvages, fitting this long, narrow bag to the shape of the leg; the flaps to be on the outside, which serve to wrap over the skin, or forepart of the leg, tied round under the knee, and above the ankle, with garters of the same colour; by which the legs are preserved from many fatal accidents, that may happen by briars, Humps of trees, or under-wood, &c, in marching through a close, woody country; the Army have made an ingenious addition to them, by putting a tongue, or sloped piece before, as there is in the lower part of a spatterdash, and a strap fixed to it under the heart of the foot, which fastens under the outside ancle with a button. By these improvements they cover part of the instep under the shoe-buckle and the quarters all round; the Indians generally ornament the flaps with beads of various colours, as they do their Moggosan, or slipper; for my part, I think them clumsy, and not at all military; yet I confess they are highly necessary in North America; nevertheless, if they were made without the flap and to button the outside of the leg, in like manner as a spatterdash they would answer full as well: but this is a matter of opinion." Captain John Knox, Historical Journal, 1757. [with the 43rd Regiment of Foot] Spence
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Leggings?
Feb 20, 2020 8:53:42 GMT -7
via mobile
Post by hawkeyes on Feb 20, 2020 8:53:42 GMT -7
I would shy away from anything but wool or hide. Leggings are very easy to construct and shouldn't be overly complex for one to construct. They are easily tailored for a perfect fit and wear well once broken in. I grease mine with tallow and and roll on. Skinned game, swam, fallen down creek beds and all in between with my leggings and they keep on going, dirt, blood stains and all. My advice would be to figure out if a breechclout is something you'd wear with them as that will decide on the fitment. Over breeches they obviously will be much loose in fitting.
I've spent allot of time wearing them over the years and can attest to their comfort and durability once they are good and worn. I wouldn't advise on using anything heavier than a split elk hide and in wool a solid color broadcloth would be perfect.
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Post by Black Hand on Feb 20, 2020 9:29:07 GMT -7
I wear leggings over breeches. Got tired of the cold drafts in winter when wearing a clout....
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ewoaf
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Post by ewoaf on Feb 20, 2020 9:58:38 GMT -7
Center seam leggings just weren't around until the early 19th c for the Cherokee. I think we're seeing something else in the 62 newsprint, there's just too much other hokieness going on to take much from that engraving. The portraits they sat for on that trip are much more telling.
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Post by paranger on Feb 20, 2020 10:15:24 GMT -7
Center seam leggings just weren't around until the early 19th c for the Cherokee. I think we're seeing something else in the 62 newsprint, there's just too much other hokieness going on to take much from that engraving. The portraits they sat for on that trip are much more telling. I would have to agree. The 1762 engraving is believed to be largely copied after the fact from ca. 1710 portraits of the Mohawk "kings" by Jan Veresldt as commissioned by Queen Anne. According to the annotated Memoirs of Lt. Henry Timberlake edited by Duane King (intro, xxvii), "the depiction was mostly fictitious."
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Post by armando on Feb 20, 2020 11:03:03 GMT -7
Hawkeyes, Are you saying you just slip those on over your stockings and/or bare legs? You don't need to fasten, lace or anything?
Is the "cuff" at top a separate piece sewn on?
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