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Post by Black Hand on Feb 19, 2022 18:56:46 GMT -7
And yet, in one sense, it doen't matter for us, does it? We do what we believe is right because we couldn't look ourselves in the mirror and sleep at night otherwise. Correct. Discussing ethics among ethical men is fruitless. I don't entirely agree or disagree - my ethics are not your ethics and your ethics are not my ethics. That said, there will be many times when we agree, however we will not agree on all things. Now, it doesn't mean we will get any closer to the truth (what ever "truth" is) but discussion is certainly not wasted. |
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Joe
City-dweller
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Post by Joe on Feb 19, 2022 23:17:03 GMT -7
Hope you guys solve this "ethics" dilemma . I'm packing it in on this one.
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Post by spence on Feb 20, 2022 10:15:25 GMT -7
I'm surprised to see the consideration of hunter ethics end up being so complex. Just goes to show that we may be far off base when we assume everyone feels the same about it as we do. So, am I making the same mistake when I assume everyone would agree that any illegal hunting activity is unethical? That SSS has no place in the lexicon of an ethical hunter?
Spence
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Post by paranger on Feb 20, 2022 10:34:54 GMT -7
I'm surprised to see the consideration of hunter ethics end up being so complex. Just goes to show that we may be far off base when we assume everyone feels the same about it as we do. So, am I making the same mistake when I assume everyone would agree that any illegal hunting activity is unethical? That SSS has no place in the lexicon of an ethical hunter? Spence Obviously, I can only speak for myself, Spence, but I would agree with you. |
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Post by brokennock on Feb 20, 2022 10:38:43 GMT -7
I'm surprised to see the consideration of hunter ethics end up being so complex. Just goes to show that we may be far off base when we assume everyone feels the same about it as we do. So, am I making the same mistake when I assume everyone would agree that any illegal hunting activity is unethical? That SSS has no place in the lexicon of an ethical hunter? Spence I wish things were that simple Spence. If I look at it strictly as a hunter. Then yes, any illegal killing of game, (once the laws are broken I can't call it hunting anymore), or any wild animal, would be unethical. However, if the laws have not kept up with the ever changing situation, we may wind up with circumstances that test this. A landowner sustaining property and/or livestock damage. Is killing that bear, coyote, or bobcats unethical? I have had a close friend, who does not keep food or garbage in his barn, have his barn broken into several times by bears. Not just busting a window, although they have busted one out of the frame,,,, but actually ripping battens off the side of the barn trying to go through the wall. The appropriate agencies will do nothing about it, but if he shoots that bear, even if the bear gets aggressive towards him,,, they will arrest him and take any and all firearms, muzzleloaders, bows and arrows, he has. But they won't even fine the people who are feeding these bears. Now, if someone shoots said bear and applies the second of the three S's and wastes all that meat? That is certainly unethical. Any waste of game meat is, in my opinion, unethical. But what about problem coyotes, that, again, the state is not addressing as a problem? Not really edible. What to do? Unfortunately the situation has become far more complex than even 25 years ago. Generally speaking, yes, SSS is unethical, but I cab see a case being made for it under certain conditions. |
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Post by Black Hand on Feb 20, 2022 12:04:24 GMT -7
...any illegal hunting activity is unethical? Not necessarily (as I see it). Of course, you end up going to extremes. Is it illegal to hunt a deer out of season if your family is hungry? Yes. Is it unethical - not in my view That SSS has no place in the lexicon of an ethical hunter? Agreed! |
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Feb 20, 2022 12:22:01 GMT -7
That SSS has no place in the lexicon of an ethical hunter? Agreed! I don't disagree with you, but I would argue that SSS isn't hunting. So it's not correct to include it with "hunting ethics". |
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Joe
City-dweller
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Post by Joe on Feb 20, 2022 12:44:58 GMT -7
A fisherman catches a rough fish and throws it up on the bank to die. or punctures the swim bladder before throwing back into the water. Is this unethical ? Or just objectionable to one's senses. There was a time (and may still be ) when this was the law, and common practice.
Governments have had bounties on animals, where only a piece of the animal was needed to collect. States sell hunting licenses and have seasons on non-game species.
Prairie dogs are hunted for sport, but they are also exterminated the same as you would a rat or mouse in your house, and for the same reasons.
Are these "ethical" ?
Ethics are highly subjective and change over time.
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Post by spence on Feb 20, 2022 14:40:25 GMT -7
Joe, I'd be interested to hear your definition of "hunting ethics".
Spence
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Joe
City-dweller
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Post by Joe on Feb 20, 2022 15:29:44 GMT -7
Joe, I'd be interested to hear your definition of "hunting ethics". Spence I'm more interested in yours, but hunting ethics are a psychological construct aimed at modifying or controlling a hunter's beliefs, attitudes, and actions. The only question is; Who creates them ? Sometimes, it's a community, sometimes an individual, sometimes the government and sometimes it's outside groups promoting social change. |
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Post by spence on Feb 20, 2022 16:56:56 GMT -7
Can you give me an example of some action a hunter could take which would absolutely seem unethical to you?
Spence
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Joe
City-dweller
Posts: 170
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Post by Joe on Feb 20, 2022 18:01:16 GMT -7
I've been agreeing with examples all through this conversation, Though a specific example would need some context. Our hunting ethics are very similar, but I know from experience that I can't impose them on another person, Each hunter has to come to his own set of principles and ethics.. Let me ask you and everyone a question. Have you always been ethically perfect or did your set of ethics develop from doing and or seeing things you deemed wrong ? Ever done something unethical ? Ever kill a mocking bird ?  Before you reply, read this: digitalcommons.csbsju.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1067&context=headwatersI want your opinion on it too. . |
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Joe
City-dweller
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Post by Joe on Feb 20, 2022 18:04:23 GMT -7
You might have to copy and paste that link directly into google to get it to work.
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Post by spence on Feb 20, 2022 18:55:34 GMT -7
An interesting read. Long, but interesting. Educational as far as the history of hunting and reasonable in its opinions expressed.
I speak only for myself, but I've never been perfect at anything.
I've worked hard for a very long time to be an ethical hunter, though, and I am one. I am one and have been for more than 40 years before the Izaak Walton came up with their list. I was doing every item on their list before they thought of it.
If SSS isn't considered a problem of hunter ethics then I admit I don't understand what hunter ethics is, and have no business in this conversation.
Spence
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Joe
City-dweller
Posts: 170
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Post by Joe on Feb 20, 2022 20:39:29 GMT -7
I speak only for myself, but I've never been perfect at anything. I've worked hard for a very long time to be an ethical hunter, Me too, I think that's what it's really all about. It's not something you are born with or are given, It's something you have to work at to achieve. |
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