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Post by brokennock on May 3, 2022 1:19:14 GMT -7
.....A period sketch of two itinerant fellows armed only with a staff, an extra shoe, and a couple of chickens was posted and has me thinking about the prevalence of arms among the citzenry within the settled part of the Provence. A tavern owner in Reading may only have a brace of pistols for defense. A small merchant in Philadelphia may not have any arms, while a family farmsteading near to Lancaster likely has a generic ‘gun’ around the place somewhere. Where and when an arm is procured will obviously make a difference. That may be another thought nugget to mull over… Something procured nearer to Philadelphia could likely be anything one’s purse could afford - trade gun, English import fowler or rifle, German rifles, fine or shoddy locally made guns. If a fella buys a colonial-made arm in Lancaster, it’s likely to have Germanic influences - rifle or fowler. If we don’t arm ourselves until reaching Harris’s Ferry on the frontier, maybe trade guns are all that’s available. If a man owned an arm for a number of years, that will dictate another set of constraints. I’m 43. If I purchased a fire arm for myself 20 years ago when I was 23, I’d need to outfit my 21st century person with a flintlock c.1735. Like a beat up early trade gun or Dutch musket!! ... Maybe he didn't arm himself until he reaches Harris's, unlikely. Or, maybe he replaced a gun, broken or lost/stolen along the way. Or maybe it was just time to replace that worn out 20 year old 1st gun, that was probably bought used to begin with? While I don't buy into people's argument that there aren't any examples of plain or common guns because they didn't last and the nice ones did, I also don't think any gun that was actually used back then lasted as long as ours do today. I know we have that excellent letter from a gunbuilder to a client regarding a rifle and powder he is sending to fill am order,,,, wouldn't it be great to uncover a few letters ordering guns. Or a journal that mentions buying/ordering a new (at least new to the writer) gun?
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Post by Black Hand on May 3, 2022 4:44:48 GMT -7
Then (like today) there were people with guns and people without. The lack of a gun is not very surprising. On the other hand, the presence of an attack chicken is disturbing....
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RyanAK
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Post by RyanAK on May 3, 2022 6:54:41 GMT -7
I agree with your points, nock. The specific gun for my particular c.1755 persona is likely a newer purchase of good quality. Likely an imported English piece or a well done locally made gun. In general, I think the variety of arms was very great along the Susquehanna, and I’m uncovering some additional information that paints an interesting picture.
In Philadelphia, the import of trade guns, English and German arms, and myriad gun parts including locks and barrels makes anything possible to acquire, within the bounds of economic station and prevailing local tastes as to aesthetics.
Traveling west, by 1755 Lancaster was a well established trading center and also an important gunmaking center. Shumway lists 22 gunsmiths who were working in Lancaster before 1760. The younger Martin Meylin’s estate inventory of 1751 listed a large number of gunsmithing tools, including rifling tools. Because of the trade happening, you could certainly acquire an imported gun in Lancaster. However, with the number of smiths and the evidence that rifles and smoothbores were being ‘whole made’ there, it’s also possible to have have purchased a locally made gun of Germanic influence.
With the road extended to Harris’s Ferry, that area was becoming an increasingly important trade center. It was still the frontier in 1755, but an important economic hub for the lower Susquehanna. I’d love to find period information on the trade happening there, especially with regards to arms. My inference would be a preponderance of trade guns, followed by finer British imported arms, with maybe some locally built guns from Lancaster. I haven’t yet tracked down any information on gunmakers in what is now Dauphin County.
Then there’s the true frontier gunsmiths… at Shamokin itself. This is quoted from Early Events in the Susquehanna Valley by John H. Carter, in another work. This is a book I obviously, desperately need to track down.
Writing about the Moravian establishment of gunsmiths at Shamokin:
”John Hagen records that on June 21, 1747, that David Bruce (who had gone back to Bethlehem) returned to Shamokin with Christian Henry Rauch. On the way up he purchased, at Lancaster, the iron, etc., for the smithy which was transported to Harris’ Ferry. The Indians went down in canoes, loaded the anvil, iron, and tools, and paddled back to Shamokin. Gunsmith Anton Schmidt arrived (apparently later replaced my Marcus Kiefer) on August 3rd, 1747. This forge existed until the opening of the French and Indian War.”
More to come…
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Post by brokennock on May 3, 2022 14:21:51 GMT -7
Then (like today) there were people with guns and people without. The lack of a gun is not very surprising. On the other hand, the presence of an attack chicken is disturbing.... I'm sure the chicken was properly registered. They look like upstanding citizens.
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Post by spence on May 3, 2022 21:15:14 GMT -7
In Philadelphia, the import of trade guns, English and German arms, and myriad gun parts including locks and barrels makes anything possible to acquire, within the bounds of economic station and prevailing local tastes as to aesthetics. The Warren Johnson journal seems to indicate that by 1760 guns actually made in Philadelphia had a good reputation among the people he was spending time with in the area of Albany, NY. One way of reading what he said would indicate they were making the barrels, I guess. "They are remarkable at Philadelphia for making rifled Barrell Gunns, which throw a Ball above 300 yards, vastly well, & much better than any other Barrells. People here in general Shoot very well with Ball, but don't doe much with Shot." Spence
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RyanAK
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Post by RyanAK on May 4, 2022 6:11:23 GMT -7
Great find, Spence! (My 7-year-old is Spencer, too!)
I think it can be read either way as to if the rifle barrels were self-made or imported. There’s evidence that rifling was taking place. Meylin’s 1751 estate shows rifling barrels was happening in Lancaster at least as early as mid-century and I have loose notes on boring mills in several places.
Whatever. It’s a wonderful quote and we can infer that Philadelphia makers were creating rifles at this time. We hear much about the other “schools” of riflemaking, but little about work coming out of Philadelphia. I may need to dig a little more into this. I wonder if these rifles were on British- or German-style stocks…
Great stuff.
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Post by brokennock on May 4, 2022 7:02:50 GMT -7
In Philadelphia, the import of trade guns, English and German arms, and myriad gun parts including locks and barrels makes anything possible to acquire, within the bounds of economic station and prevailing local tastes as to aesthetics. The Warren Johnson journal seems to indicate that by 1760 guns actually made in Philadelphia had a good reputation among the people he was spending time with in the area of Albany, NY. One way of reading what he said would indicate they were making the barrels, I guess. "They are remarkable at Philadelphia for making rifled Barrell Gunns, which throw a Ball above 300 yards, vastly well, & much better than any other Barrells. People here in general Shoot very well with Ball, but don't doe much with Shot." Spence I've always appreciated this quote when you have graced us with it in the past. Today I pulled a new inference from it. We generally steer folks in the direction of a smoothbore for this time period as it seems they were most common. I think the last line speaks to that. "...Shoot very well with Ball, but don't doe much with Shot." Clearly loose shot was a consideration and a factor in common usage of a gun. I almost feel to take this as, "well, these guns are really great at this one thing, BUT, they have this one flaw...." It would seem the smoothbore with its ability to send both shot and ball was still a high standard to be compared to.
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Post by Black Hand on May 4, 2022 10:42:15 GMT -7
Along with versatility, I'd suspect price was also a consideration. Making a smooth barrel would have been faster and easier thereby reducing cost.
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RyanAK
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Post by RyanAK on May 4, 2022 12:27:12 GMT -7
I like that analysis, brokennock. Use would determine which arm to acquire. Hand, also a good point. I wonder what’s out there regarding the comparative costs of various guns c.1750. I wonder if imported smooth barrels were ever rifled once in the hands of a colonial gunmaker. I think I have at least one example of a octagon-to-round barrel with rifling, and my first thought was it was rifled in Pennsylvania after manufacture. My second though was that Fowler barrels are fairly light and might not have the wall thickness to take the rifling or strength to handle the increased pressures of a tightly fitting patched ball. I’m stalled on my quest to find out more about the gunsmiths at Shamokin or what guns were available at John Harris’s post on the Susquehanna. I think Moravian archives might be a good source. I’m also going to put out feelers to historical societies and the museum at Fort Augusta (to which I’ve never been…!) So… I’ll shortly start in on more detailed notes on the gun types listed previously, including surviving examples, what I’ve learned and can assume about their relative prevalence on the Susquehanna frontier, and how a fella could go about recreating one of these types for himself. This should be fun. Now… with which shall we start…? Any suggestions? Still having fun?
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Post by spence on May 4, 2022 22:32:39 GMT -7
....we can infer that Philadelphia makers were creating rifles at this time. We hear much about the other “schools” of riflemaking, but little about work coming out of Philadelphia. A tidbit from Bethlehem, the Moravian settlement 60-70 miles north of Philadelphia, referencing a rifle made in 1752: On April 18, 1754, Moravian missionary David Kleist scribed in his diary that “the Great Shawanos (Shawnee) visited Bethlehem…and asked about Brother Albrecht who had made a rifle for him two years ago in a very satisfactory fashion.” Spence
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Post by paranger on May 5, 2022 2:52:57 GMT -7
....we can infer that Philadelphia makers were creating rifles at this time. We hear much about the other “schools” of riflemaking, but little about work coming out of Philadelphia. A tidbit from Bethlehem, the Moravian settlement 60-70 miles north of Philadelphia, referencing a rifle made in 1752: On April 18, 1754, Moravian missionary David Kleist scribed in his diary that “the Great Shawanos (Shawnee) visited Bethlehem…and asked about Brother Albrecht who had made a rifle for him two years ago in a very satisfactory fashion.” Spence That would undoubtedly be Chief Paxinosa. If so, the gun is actually a "smooth rifle,' and amazingly survives. scavengeology.com/the-rca-19-rifle-an-epic-mid-18th-century-flintlock-smooth-rifle-with-an-exciting-history/
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RyanAK
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Post by RyanAK on May 5, 2022 6:27:18 GMT -7
It is remarkable that a particular rifle survives with provenance from the historical record. It’s also remarkable that this rifle it was owned by a native chief and survives.
Which brings up an interesting observation. As I’m finding information on arms along the Susquehanna frontier specifically, and from the 1750s generally, the preponderance of information in the record indicates rifle use was vastly higher among the Indians than among white colonists. The Indians also seemed to understand the virtues of both rifle and smoothbore as they would be employed in the frontier war unfolding in Pennsylvania.
From Conrad Weiser: “if the White people will come up to Shamokin and assist they (the Indians) will stand the French and fight them. The said that now they want to see their Brethren’s faces, and well armed with smooth Guns, no rifled Guns which requires too much cleaning… I pray Sir don’t slight it - The lives of many thousands are in the utmost Danger. It is no false alarm.”
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Post by brokennock on May 5, 2022 19:28:02 GMT -7
I've observed this before that it would seem that rifle guns gained popularity with natives before the white settlers and frontiersmen. There is an account of an early battle either of the F&I or leading into where one of the white survivors tells that the Indians were armed with rifles. If I recall correctly, this was the earliest I had seen a reference to rifle use.
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Post by spence on May 5, 2022 20:16:00 GMT -7
Maybe one of these:
The South-Carolina GAZETTE July 12, 1760 CHARLES-TOWN That the Number of Indians killed may be about 50; and that, having many Rifles among them, they did Execution at a greater Distance than our People could.
Fort Prince George (Keowee) Feb. 28, 1760. "The same Day one of the soldiers was shot in the North East Angle of the Fort, from the Hills on the other Side of the River: He died of the Wound Yesterday. We have Reason to believe the Indians have a good many rifle barrel Guns amongst them, as their Bullets seem to come this Way with great Force.There is no Communication at present with Fort Loudoun. ---"
Spence
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Post by brokennock on May 5, 2022 20:24:01 GMT -7
Maybe the 1st one, but I feel like it was one of the larger skirmishes involving the English being attacked or ambushed on their way to a French fort. But, my recollection could be way off.
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