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Post by brokennock on Apr 30, 2022 5:49:57 GMT -7
Oh, someday. I admire those with the drive, time, resources and skill to accomplish a true scratch build. Just starting from a slab would be ambitious for me at this point. Our friend Hawkeyes has both the forge skills and woodworking skills to do the job. He has made some forged items for a few of us here and has presented us with some nicely done kit completions as well as artillery pieces he has built, including forging the hardware. |
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Post by Black Hand on Apr 30, 2022 6:01:58 GMT -7
Oh, someday. I admire those with the drive, time, resources and skill to accomplish a true scratch build. Just starting from a slab would be ambitious for me at this point. As a start, I'd suggest buying a high-quality kit and build what you want now. Once you develop skills, the decision to build from a blank or scratch or parts or etc. can be made. |
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Apr 30, 2022 6:04:25 GMT -7
Oh, someday. I admire those with the drive, time, resources and skill to accomplish a true scratch build. Just starting from a slab would be ambitious for me at this point. As a start, I'd suggest buying a high-quality kit and build what you want now. Once you develop skills, the decision to build from a blank or scratch or parts or etc. can be made. Absolutely! |
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Post by hawkeyes on Apr 30, 2022 6:25:50 GMT -7
If anyone here can take on and succeed with that project it is you Hawkeyes. Can we please have it completed by deer season 2022? Thank you. Thank you for the kind words my friends, humbling indeed to hear. |
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Post by hawkeyes on Apr 30, 2022 6:42:08 GMT -7
Oh, someday. I admire those with the drive, time, resources and skill to accomplish a true scratch build. Just starting from a slab would be ambitious for me at this point. Honestly a blank isn't as hard as you probably imagine... Personally, some of these so called "kit guns" can be tedious if not downright frustrating. What I mean by this is the overall fixed nature of many critical components, barrel, lock, trigger guards and so on. With these kit guns the stocks are duplicated on a mechanical axis machine with all components roughly located and inlet. Problems arise when you need to say, move the barrel back a tick, or on the extreme half an inch or more. This deviation then impacts the location of the other components especially the lock. This overall can be difficult for someone unfamiliar with the techniques of building. With a blank, you have complete control over every single dimension start to finish. While the task may seem daunting, in all honesty it's really not. Planning is the best practice before starting. Mark your locations on the blank, measurements and all along with guide lines for removing wood and within minutes you'll be off to the races. I'm no master builder, far from it and obviously there are far more experienced individuals out there than myself and I'm not ashamed to mention it. None the less, I believe in perfecting my skills by learning something new with each build and doing things right best I can. I personally have never built a chambers kit gun but will soon. With all the other kit options available and having experience with track kits, which are pectonica river guns I'd opt for a a chambers kit without delay if your wanting to build. |
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Post by brokennock on Apr 30, 2022 6:43:45 GMT -7
If anyone here can take on and succeed with that project it is you Hawkeyes. Can we please have it completed by deer season 2022? Thank you. Thank you for the kind words my friends, humbling indeed to hear. What are you doing writing here?! Get to work on it. I like cherry stocked fowling pieces by the way, and about a 13 3/4 inch length of pull. Though apple might make for a nice New England fowling piece of a suitable slab could be found. Get cracking... 😉😆🤣 |
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Post by hawkeyes on Apr 30, 2022 6:48:30 GMT -7
Thank you for the kind words my friends, humbling indeed to hear. What are you doing writing here?! Get to work on it. I like cherry stocked fowling pieces by the way, and about a 13 3/4 inch length of pull. Though apple might make for a nice New England fowling piece of a suitable slab could be found. Get cracking... 😉😆🤣 Well, it's shaping up to be a rainy day here in the valley and I was contemplating some shop time with my ash stocked build today. On a side note though... I've got to finish the rough oak frame I'm making for our pastors leather declaration along with forging some hanging hardware for it.  |
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Apr 30, 2022 8:27:00 GMT -7
Oh, someday. I admire those with the drive, time, resources and skill to accomplish a true scratch build. Just starting from a slab would be ambitious for me at this point. Honestly a blank isn't as hard as you probably imagine... Personally, some of these so called "kit guns" can be tedious if not downright frustrating. What I mean by this is the overall fixed nature of many critical components, barrel, lock, trigger guards and so on. With these kit guns the stocks are duplicated on a mechanical axis machine with all components roughly located and inlet. Problems arise when you need to say, move the barrel back a tick, or on the extreme half an inch or more. This deviation then impacts the location of the other components especially the lock. This overall can be difficult for someone unfamiliar with the techniques of building. With a blank, you have complete control over every single dimension start to finish. While the task may seem daunting, in all honesty it's really not. Planning is the best practice before starting. Mark your locations on the blank, measurements and all along with guide lines for removing wood and within minutes you'll be off to the races. I'm no master builder, far from it and obviously there are far more experienced individuals out there than myself and I'm not ashamed to mention it. None the less, I believe in perfecting my skills by learning something new with each build and doing things right best I can. I personally have never built a chambers kit gun but will soon. With all the other kit options available and having experience with track kits, which are pectonica river guns I'd opt for a a chambers kit without delay if your wanting to build. Man, I really appreciate the encouragement. I keep waffling between a quality kit (right now Chambers or Clay Smith), a non-inlet stock (because of getting the barrel-lock interface correct), and a blank. I guess my hang up with a blank is bulk stock removal (my shop is largely non-powered) and getting the shaping correct from lock to butt. I’m perfectly confident in my ability to lay out the bits, do good inletting, and clean carving (engraving… eh), but the three dimensional shaping… the art of making a clean and comfortable gun… gives me pause. Even a pre-carve non-inlet stock with a lot of material to remove at least gives me the basic lines. I have a few of Track’s full sized drawings. Maybe I need to look at them and see if there’s enough info to layout and get the shaping right… |
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Post by hawkeyes on Apr 30, 2022 9:00:42 GMT -7
I'm 100% hand powered, I do nothing with power tools so don't be afraid of that. Only power tool I use when building a rifle is hand power!
For wood removal I have cheated... Still a hand tool but I've discovered a Japanese shinto saw rasp. What could take hours and hours if not potentially days of work has now been reduced to over half the time if not more depending on the wood and area being shaped. This tool will change the game and will remove skin from hands and fingers with authority in a split second, ask me how I know...
Worth noting, even the items I forge no press or powered hammer is used. Often times people have a hard time grasping how things are made without the modern aid of power tools until they see it done. Most today can't remove themselves from the modern mindset. More time consuming yes, but much is learned through the slower paced work experience.
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Apr 30, 2022 9:22:34 GMT -7
I’m with ya. I much prefer hand tools and have very limited power tools around. I completely forgot about the Shinto rasp… I’ve had one on my “Wish List” for years. Ha.
I do have a vintage bench-top horizontal mill that’s slowly being developed to make tapered bamboo splines for my rod making. Not because of any speed improvements, but that’s how the rods were made during the golden age of rod making. Then I have hand tools collected for a traditional wooden boat build. I’m a student of the methods.
Cutting out a stock would give a purpose to an old Diston rip saw that I restored and have filed up. It doesn’t see much use. The drawknife challenges me and makes me nervous about tear out. Probably need to add a set of spokeshaves… more scrapers… a few specialty chisels…
Fun stuff!
Anyway… I haven’t discounted building from a plank. Not by a long shot. How does a guy that hasn’t developed an “eye” lay out the lines? Reasonable to enlarge photos to full size to get the proportions correct?
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Post by Black Hand on Apr 30, 2022 15:43:06 GMT -7
Don't discount planes, spokeshaves, drawknife and Farrier's rasps for fast (or slow) wood removal.
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Apr 30, 2022 15:58:03 GMT -7
Don't discount planes, spokeshaves, drawknife and Farrier's rasps for fast (or slow) wood removal. Oh… I have planes. I use a variety for rodmaking. A trip to the antique stores (we’re filthy with them here…) will supply me with numerous spokeshaves for not much money. Several farriers rasps on hand. Add in that Shinto rasp and Bob’s yer uncle. I haven’t gotten the hang of the drawknife yet. Hickory can be a PITA for tear out. Saw out with my ol’ Distons, then work with planes, spokeshaves, rasps. I can get behind that. Now… getting the shape… hmmm. Kit. Pre-carve non-inlet. Blank. And still… what to build? Leaning towards English Trade Gun, English Fowler, or colonial-built gun. So… yup. |
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Apr 30, 2022 16:02:02 GMT -7
What place in civilian society did English Fusils hold? I see a lot of mention in period documents, but mostly related to military use. There also seem to be at least more than a few surviving guns. How prevalent do we suppose they were?
R
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Post by brokennock on Apr 30, 2022 19:03:34 GMT -7
"And still… what to build? Leaning towards English Trade Gun, English Fowler, or colonial-built gun."
Based on what you have written here and elsewhere, I would think an English fowling piece or Colonial built (stocking of imported parts) fowling piece would be your best options.
However. Is there a chance your Swiss German immigrant father or grandfather brought a fowling piece over from der Fatherland? Maybe a Dutch Club Butt?
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on May 2, 2022 20:32:27 GMT -7
I’m going to go with the idea that the family acquired arms once the arrived and we’re established in Pennsylvania. But that’s a good thought!
Something came up over on the clothing thread that I think makes a direct correlation to this idea.
A period sketch of two itinerant fellows armed only with a staff, an extra shoe, and a couple of chickens was posted and has me thinking about the prevalence of arms among the citzenry within the settled part of the Provence. A tavern owner in Reading may only have a brace of pistols for defense. A small merchant in Philadelphia may not have any arms, while a family farmsteading near to Lancaster likely has a generic ‘gun’ around the place somewhere. Where and when an arm is procured will obviously make a difference. That may be another thought nugget to mull over…
Something procured nearer to Philadelphia could likely be anything one’s purse could afford - trade gun, English import fowler or rifle, German rifles, fine or shoddy locally made guns. If a fella buys a colonial-made arm in Lancaster, it’s likely to have Germanic influences - rifle or fowler. If we don’t arm ourselves until reaching Harris’s Ferry on the frontier, maybe trade guns are all that’s available.
If a man owned an arm for a number of years, that will dictate another set of constraints. I’m 43. If I purchased a fire arm for myself 20 years ago when I was 23, I’d need to outfit my 21st century person with a flintlock c.1735. Like a beat up early trade gun or Dutch musket!!
Nock, I tend to agree with your assessment though. An mid-grade English Fowler or a quality smoothbore built by a Pennsylvania maker with imported rather than repurposed parts c.1750 is likely the the ‘correct’ choice. And between the two, at this time, the English gun is likely of higher quality and less expensive that the American gun.
But I’m still pondering. Something about those trade guns has a grip on me.
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